Virginia Transportation Funding Deal

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by wjtracy, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Here is a good Washington Post blog article on the Northern Virginia gasoline price issue after July 1:
    Where are those lower Va. gas prices? - All Opinions Are Local - The Washington Post

    Like me, the blog author complains that northern VA gasoline prices have NOT come down despite the state gaso tax drop in VA on July-1. The first commenter explains that oil company price models will try to hold contant pump prices in MD/DC/North VA constant despite the tax changes in VA. He is suggesting oil companies intentionally raised the wholsesale prices in north VA to maintain status quo prices in the region (MD/DC/VA). The commenter feels outside of north Virginia, the gaso tax reduction may have been actually seen at the pump.

    In other words, NOVA is screwed again...what a mess the VA Transportation bill was! We got a huge increase in sales tax in NOVA, in return for a non-existent drop in gasoline tax. :( In fact, I am seeing almost 10-20 cent increase in gaso price! (which makes partial sense per above if NoVA wholesale price has to reflect Maryland's increase in gaso tax). It looks like I have use GasBuddy.com to reassess where I usually go to fill-up.
     
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  2. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Maybe the majority want to reduce oil usage, maybe not. But certainly the majority doesn't "act" to do it. And especially not pay to do it.

    Mike
     
  3. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    We have studies and polls.
    U.S. consumption of foreign oil tops concerns in Energy Poll - Houston Business Journal

    Then we have the question of gas taxes
    Poll: Put brakes on gas tax - Kevin Cirilli - POLITICO.com

    Which gives part of the disconnect. People want to use less oil, and want infrastructure, but they don't trust the politicians at all. Let's look into some reasons.

    No one really believes a gas tax of only 20 cents a gallon is going to reduce oil use much, it needs to be higher to do that, at least if you are looking at the same curves I am seeing. Then we see things like the big dig and the new bay bridge that come in very late and way over budget (bay bridge is 10 years late and $4B over budget at around $6B.) If you tax gas a dollar or say oil $40/bbl and congress just spends the money on these programs, you say no. We need people in congress to actually tell the truth, raise oil taxes but as part of a tax reform package, that lowers other taxes and closes loopholes. Most don't trust them with more money to just put into projects like the SF-LA high speed rail that already is double the initial budget and is likely to go much much higher. I am probably in the minority that would like higher infrastructure locally (population is much higher here than when freeways were built, and the toll roads have done nothing to lessen truck traffic to and from mexico, as these are happy to go through town instead of paying for tolls on the bypass.
     
  4. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Oops...meant to say that the majority do not act to reduce.

    Mike
     
  5. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    The majority want something for nothing. I'll never see the benefits but I believe in investing in education and infrastructure.

    I'm reminded of the old saying: Don't tax you, don't me, tax the man behind the tree.

    Only instead I say tax me.
     
  6. iClaudius

    iClaudius Active Member

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    Ah yes...change the actual numbers and then do some home brewed "calculations" to get the round facts to fit in square preconceptions. That's what leads to lowering gasoline taxes and taxing fuel efficient vehicles in times of oil induced climate change and 20 years of oil wars and $14T in oil war debt.

    US is 50% less energy efficient than Europe or Japan or any other advanced nation. We waste oil mainly through transportation and mainly through cars.

    Every time we have had oil price spikes (the two Saudi oil embargoes) US consumers have realized they can cut their gasoline usage by 50% with no real impact on essentials. Those are the "peaks" of facts you would like to flatten with "calculations".

    US Dept of Transportation has tons of facts of this providing simple tips that would reduce a person's fuel use by 30% in every day driving.

    To get higher usage and maintain dependence...has to do with economics 101 though you conflate the oil companies push for LOWER GASOLINE TAXES with oil company charges for oil. Oil companies want the golden mean price low enough to keep usage high and price as high as possible to increase profit. They don't want government interfering by increasing taxes to lower usage even though that is clearly in the national interest.
     
  7. VicVinegar

    VicVinegar Member

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    I had to drive to the Hampton Roads area for work this week. I filled up in NoVA for 3.57. Had to fill up in Chesapeake and it was 3.41.

    On my way back I noticed a billboard with fuel prices on it near Richmond. Price for regular unleaded was 3.19. $3.19?!

    I can understand the argument that land prices in Fairfax, Arlington or Loudoun can push prices up for us. Fine. But land isn't dirt cheap in Hampton Roads or Richmond either.
     
  8. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    The down state areas of VA have been living off the NOVA income taxes for decades. The difference in money collected that is returned to the counties enables their local governments to tax less for the same perceived citizen benefits. Though, having lived in VA for 30+ years, the NOVA schools are known for their quality.
     
  9. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Yes that's true if you ask a parent in North Virginia if they are upset about the higher taxes, hybrid fees etc., from the transportion bill, the answer you mainly get is: (1) they are not aware of it, and (2) they are very happy with the quality of schools/colleges and life in NoVA, so no problem with a little higher taxes. So not much support for fighting it. But we lived in southern New Jersey 25+ years and saw the taxes go from low to high and start to drive people out.
     
  10. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Here's the latest on the VA hybrid fees:

    The state democrats are planning a hybrid fee repeal effort starting this Fall! I don't know if this is a bona fide effort to actually "fine tune" and change the hastily adopted funding bill, or it could be just a political objective for the dems to take a symbolic stand against the hybrid fees that they allowed to pass.

    (Note that the hybrid fees were adopted after the repubs apparently tricked the dems by re-attaching the nixed hybrid fees onto the bill just before the gov signed it, on the very last day of the legislative session. Some key dems admitted they were fooled by the repubs, while other dems said they agreed with the overall bill, despite the hybrid fees. I am left to ponder how many of the dems were fooled, but preferred not to admit it.)

    To help support the repeal, I issued the following blog article:


    Blue Virginia:: Virginia Car Tax Reaches 25% Total for some Vehicles



    One elected official asked me how I would replace the hybrid fee money? And there is a logical answer to increase the NoVA local gasoline tax (currently 6 cents). If you are following what's going on (above posts) Virginia reduced gaso taxes by 6-cents/gal. However north Virginia is apparently not seeing the tax reduction at the pump, in part because our close neighbor Maryland has increased gaso taxes. Therefore the theory is we could increase NoVA gaso taxes and not see much actual impact on pump price.
     
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  11. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Recently had to drive from NC to PA up through western VA & WVA and came back by way of 95. The price difference was startling with southern VA priced to sell and we avoided NOVA purchase to save 10% or more.
     
  12. -1-

    -1- Don

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    :)Good news I hadn't heard. Although the tax is low, it shouldn't have been implemented.
     
  13. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    If you look at the newspaper comments, you will see a lot of people saying hybrids should be taxed in VA, just like many other states do. Hybrids gets huge tax credits and free HOV access so only fair to tax them. Washington state charges hybrid owners $100/yr and no one complains. Of course, the above is totally FALSE information, but it's what some people believe to be true.

    So what I am trying to say (I am going to put together an FAQ list) :
    Removing the hybrid fee is the correct approach, but requires some education of the voters who were misinformed. If you look at our car tax system in VA, hybrid drivers pretty much pay through the nose every year already, before the new hybrid fees are added in (especially NoVA). Add in the new fee and VA has the highest tax dis-incentive on hybrids of any state. Hybrids get no state nor federal tax credits...those credits go to electric plug-in cars only. VA is the only state to tax hybrids and it is an over-taxation amount.
     
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Have you or any of the other NOVA voters been impacted?

    Bob Wilson
     
  15. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I heard my county Ffx handled this well.
    We'll see how it goes for the Gov election.