Using PIP As A Generator

how do you hook them up? plug into the charging port like in japan? anyone have one?

 

There is an entire thread on this product. - however some here got their shorts in a bunch because the manufacturer dared mention it without identifying himself as the manufacturer. I guess the fact that he warned about dangers of hooking up high voltage relating to other products only - and not his - buged some members ... something like that iirc. That said - don't monkey with high voltage unless you truly know what you're doing ... the human body makes a great ground fault interrupt.

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I can't see hooking something like this through the charging port. The type of current draw required to run a hi-output inverter is much higher than the current for charging, therefore the wiring isn't heavy enough. Also, I'm sure the charger goes through a charge controller, so I doubt it's designed to pass much, if any current in the other direction.

 

Based on what I know about the PIP so far, the ICE won't work as a constant source of power, charging up the hybrid battery if you draw it down by tapping it to run a hi-capacity inverter. The ICE is primarily designed to drive the car, not to top-up the hybrid battery. The hybrid battery is designed to collect regenerated power from braking, coasting downhill and from plug-in charging. That's why I don't think a Prius is a good standby generator.

 

so, it's NOT turnkey?

 

And...
The process of converting mechanical energy to electrical, then to chemical (battery) back to electrical, and converting it to household current is very inefficient; I'm guessing somewhere in the 20% range. Much better to use a gen-set.

 

Happily you are incorrect in both of your assumptions. Bottom line using the Prius is much more efficient than a generator.

The ICE in the standard and PIP Prii is 1.8 liters, which can support over 50 kw in electrical energy (over 70 kw from the engine itself). Both the standard and PIP Prii operate the same once the traction battery is drawn down, starting as-needed to supply a minimum charge. When driving the ICE is supplying 10's of kw constant, not the 2-3-4 kw needed when it is operating as a generator.

The fuel efficiency of a standard genset with the output capabilities of the Converdant solution, or the APC solution I use (4 kw, 6 kw surge), is, for a 6500 watt Honda, 0.6 gallons/hour at 1/2 load. The fuel efficiency of a similar inverter-genset like the Honda ef6500is is 0.3 gallon/hour at 1/4 load. Even going with a smaller 3000 watt Honda inverter-genset you'll only get about 0.18 gallons/hour and for that you get far fewer watts. For my Prius, running every 120 volt load in my house for 2 days plus my 1800 watt chainsaw for 6 of those hours (the February ice storm), it averaged 0.14 gallons/hour. Usually it is closer to 0.12-0.13.

 

There is a product already being sold in Japan that does this.

 

Well, the Prius generator itself may be more efficient than a Honda genset, but it's 3-phase, at over 200 volts. Unless you can take over controlling the engine and generator, and couple an inverter-converter directly to it, it would have to go through the hybrid system and battery first.

I was referring to the third-party inverter that connects to the hybrid battery, which would be very inefficient, since losses have already been incured. The engine-driven generator is not programmed to compensate directly for a high current draw off the battery. Instead, it takes over driving the transaxle mechanically, when the electric motor runs out of stored energy from the battery. That stored energy mainly comes either from regeneration from coasting and braking, or from the mains as in a plug-in hybrid. Burning fuel to charge up the hybrid battery is much less efficient than burning fuel alone to directly power the car.

An industry standard for electric hybrids converting kinetic energy to battery and back to kinetic energy again is about 31-33% efficiency. Adding an extra inverter-converter would degrade it further, to what I estimated to be in the 20% range.

 

You can factor in all the described losses but the Prius HSD is more efficient and practical than an external genset.
You have to live the experience to assert the claim.

 

If I knew more about it, I could respond properly. Perhaps the charging port was designed for just this purpose, therefore it would make sense that full power could be obtained through it.

As I said in the first line of my post. But utilizing it as such has many challenges.

 

You have to take into account the intended use we are talking about.
I think we are talking about using the PIP, as is or with a small inexpensive modification in order to be able to use it as an emergency power supply. This is in contrast to purchasing a relatively expensive generator, having a supply of gasoline available and doing continual maintenance on it for the once or twice every year or two usage. In this case a difference of efficiency of even 10 or 20% means almost nothing.

Mike

 

I'd like to see that "small inexpensive modification."

 

I laid out the actual efficiency in my post above. That's from gas tank to actually running most of my house. Again, all the stuff you keep saying is incorrect. Those of us that have actually done this are telling you - the Prius is much more efficient than any generator.

See the link in my signature for the small modification. Takes about 45 minutes and about $20 in parts.

 

A pair of dual SB-120 Anderson connectors, a pair of ring terminal connectors, 6 ga dual conductor cable of no more than 4'= about 20 to 25 bucks.
Also I have the provision of a 3kw GENSET but with a propane powered engine; propane gas never gets stale and it is also my spare tank for the barbecue.

 

I understand that the higher voltages off the traction battery mitigate somewhat the losses that a lower voltage system has to deal with. Besides, in an multi-day emergency situation the Prius has one great advantage over a genset: you can get in it and drive a reasonable distance to the next county+ to get gasoline, milk, toilet paper, bourbon and whatever else the household runs out of, and get back in time before the refrigerator & freezer defrost.

 

don't forget the cigars.

 

Ditto!

 

Glad to know it works. I have to admit, I was skeptical; I didn't expect that the engine would kick in to take up the load being drained by the inverter. Personally I don't want to try it and risk screwing up the warranty on mine.