US religious landscape shifting

I'm not going to get into a deeply Political discussion, as I have no desire whatsoever to join Fred's House of Politics, and my personal belief that politics is bulls*** of the highest form

That said, it's easy to point a finger to historical events that started off with good intentions, and rapidly mutated into outrageous, barbaric, sinister acts.

No matter what "ism" you study, there are plenty of skeletons in the closet.

 

"Kill the Infidels!"

Tom

 

Yeah, like when a girl is raped, then sentenced to death because it was her fault for going out alone without fourteen layers of blackout cloth. That's certainly what makes the news, and what comes to mind. Maybe my earlier declaration was a little extreme, not knowing all the facts. Maybe Muslim is not Taliban, like Roman Catholic isn't fundamentalist Christian. Sharia Law, 1400 years ago, probably granted more rights to women than Western law did at the time, and much of 'our' current law is based on Sharia principles. But even if present-day application were benign, I still question different laws for different people within the same country. When in Rome, do as the Romans - I would expect to be subject to local laws when visiting a foreign land. But when people emigrate, they can't just bring their laws with them and ignore those of their adopted country. The legal system's in enough trouble without having different rules for different religions and races. Laws should be fair and applied consistently.

 

In the US, Indian Reservations have tribal codes that are used, yet manage to coexist with US law. As far as I can tell, the only attention getting part is that the word "Muslim" is involved. This shapes the opinions, not the essence of the issue. The other option is that the government must meditate every dispute....Yuck.

 

The scope of tribal law is limited. For example, our local tribe can't make it a hanging offense to speed through the reservation. They can, however, have deputies hand out real speeding tickets, and the tickets are just as valid as those issued from other officers.

First and foremost, all individuals in a country should be governed by the same set of laws. Some room is left for local variance, but the local laws must stay within the broad constructs of national law, imho.

Tom

 

The discussion I read about the English controversy was about this very point. The British judge was crystal clear that no UK laws could be ignored or altered. The word "Sharia Law" obviously confused many on a surface reading since the whole point was that the Shara Law could NOT replace any UK laws, but was just a cultural proceedure for dispute resolution that had to operate completely within the UK law.

 

Of course, what is an Infidel to one group, is a Saint to another group, and vice versa. I also personally believe that religion is bulls*** too

 

Well, the problem with that hope is the very real issue that the legal system is corrupt, through and through. That's an entirely separate and depressing topic.

Executive Summary version: we're screwed blue

 

There is a tremendous amount of good that religion does that some here are overlooking. If religion goes away a lot of these programs and institutes will not be picked up certainly not by any atheist organizations that I know about. :yo:

Wildkow

 

The tiny amount of good done by religious organizations is completely overshadowed by the evil perpetrated in the name of religion. If we give up both the good and the evil, we will all come out way ahead.

Tom

 

Respectfully and not to be too rude qbee42 but I think you're pulling arguments out of your nice person. Religious organizations collect more money, goods and volunteer time from religious people to give to the poor and disaster victims than other organizations in the world except for governments and more than likely most of those donations come from religious people. They build hospitals, schools, infrastructure in poor countries, send medical teams worldwide and on and on and on.

Can you name one atheist organization that gives more or even comes close to a comparable sized or one of the smallest religious organizations in terms of donations collected?

Furthermore, I would argue that religion is not the cause of more evil in the world. Look at what these two Atheist did. Stalin 30-50 million dead, Mao 35-70 million dead. Between those two I think they killed more people than in the entire history of religious wars.

Look religious organizations are made up of people and people are fallible to say that religion is evil is the same as saying that guns kill people.

"If we give up both the good and the evil, we will all come out way ahead."

You meant something completely different right?


Wildkow

 

No, I meant exactly what I said. Only a person blinded by religious indoctrination could see it any other way.

There is no question that many religious organizations do many good things. The problem is that the evils perpetrated in the name of religion are truly colossal. There simply aren't enough good things to do in the world to make up for the evil already done and continuing to be done.

Pointing out the good done by religion is like complimenting Mussolini for making the railroads run on schedule. It's nice to have the trains run on time, but at what price?

Tom

 

I respectfully disagree, Tom.
What About Atrocities That Have Been Done in the Name of Religion

Statistics of Democide

 

Awww you beat me to it. :yo:

Wildkow

p.s. more colossal perhaps because it's coming from a source that preaches one thing and does another. Certainly not larger in scope or more horrifying than others.

 

I find it very interesting that bible-thumpers usually give a pass to atrocities committed by various religions. Of course, these various religions have outright hatred/contempt for other various religions

It really wasn't that long ago that people were burned at the stake for being "evil" or being "witches." We don't have to look back very far to when Holy Armies marched off to war

Even an occultist like Hitler believed in religion, the religion of the Occult. Lenin and Stalin replaced one God with another God, the God of the State. Why do you think all those statues of Lenin and Stalin were sprinkled around the former USSR? People learned to literally tremble in fear of them, much as folks trembled in fear of our Judea-Christian God a few hundred years ago

How about the Religion of the Ancient Azteks? It was a religion, so was the form of Religion practiced in ancient Egypt, India, etc etc. Just because they didn't read from the King James version of the bible, doesn't mean they didn't have a Religion. It's ignorant and arrogant to think otherwise

Much more recently, when various abuses were uncovered in the United States and Canada by various pedophile "priests" of the Roman Catholic Church, and other Churches, almost uniformely these churches - especially the pope guy with that pointy hat - condemned the victem and protected the "priest," an activity that continues to this day

MOUNT CASHEL ORPHANAGE

Abuse Tracker 2005: <a href="http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1105681437551_25/?hub=WFive">Orphans</a>

In the above cases, I fully agree the Provincial and Federal governments were complicit, as they knew what was going on. Eg: a 10 year old boy from the orphanage is dropped off at an ER with a torn anus

Of course, who wouldn't find a 10 year old bubble butt irrestibally cute? Especially cute enough to repeatedly f***? NOT. These "priests" shoudl all be stripped and lined up in a row. I'd happily use a dull rusty knife to chop Captain Winky off every one of them

And where was this "god" guy when all this horrible abuse was going on over the centuries? Whether burning people alive, stretching them on racks, dunking them in water (The "waterboarding" of the Middle Ages), or f***ing little boys, why didn't this "god" dude step in and stop it?

Hmmmm?

Oh, that's right. No such thing.

 

Stalin and Mao weren't Atheists. An Atheist says "There's no God, so don't worship anybody." Stalin and Mao said "There's no God, so worship ME!" They didn't want the competition.

 

Exactly!

 

Heck, religion is the problem, not the solution. Civilization can't last another 1000 years with religion as it is now. Sure, there are good things about religion. But these are the humanistic aspects, which you don't need religion to practice. It's the spiritual aspect of religion that is irrational and breeds intolerance. That's the destructive part.

 

I don't understand. How is the spiritual aspect of religion that which is irrational and breeds intolerance? I think the proof is in the pudding that humans are the aspect of religion that are irrational and breed intolerance. Where did Christ teach intolerance or irrationality? Was it not written to, "...test everything. Hold on to that which is good." 1 Thessalonians 5:21 That statement applies to everything; doctrine, science, what people tell you, etc. That seems pretty rational to me.

 

Yes, taken by itself, that part *is* rational

Where it becomes entirely irrational is when people who are entrusted to run these corporations (A Church is a corporation with Tax Exempt status, prove it otherwise) twist and corrupt these teachings

Throughout history, Religion has been used as an excuse to promote hatred, racism, to conquer other lands and people, and even to promote/start wars.

When I was in the Army, I always found it highly ironic when somebody would mutter a prayer to ensure they had very low circular error probability. Or when they prayed to ensure they killed as many of the "enemy" as possible.

I tend to put belief of a god or god(s), satan, santy claus, and the tooth fairy into the same general file folder: fiction