Updated: Toyota Recalling 270,000 2010 Prius Hybrids in Japan & US for Brake Issue

No one ever said that you were a bad driver. However....


If someone gave you a 6 speed manual transmission would you have to drive differently than you do with every other automatic transmission you've driven? Of course you would:

• you have to clutch
• you must learn the transition from out-of-gear into 1st gear in order to get going
• you have to downshift yourself
• you should clutch and shift out of drive into neutral at all stops
• you have to be very careful to engage the clutch when moving from a stop to forward on steep inclines
• you have to brake and clutch in panic situations, then shift to neutral in order not to stall

IOW you must learn to drive differently for manual tranny vehicles. Don't say that you shouldn't have to learn how to drive again for these new vehicles. It's mandatory to learn how to drive one of these new high-tech vehicles.


This is my key problem with all these complaints. Why is it that I have no problems after 140,000+ miles of driving and suddenly all these new first-timers are in a panic of hysteria after a few thousand miles? The basic problem IMO is that these new first-timers expected the same ol', same ol' with no explanation of how very different the hyrids are from what they've been driving these past 20-40 yrs.

 

That comparison to driving a manual transmission is the most apt response I've read in these forums all week. Thanks, DeadPhish!

I think the real issue is that the Prius has rather suddenly become very popular. It used to be us "Prius-geeks" who had them; now it's more and more "normal" drivers. The "braking problem" is just disconcerting to people who don't know how it works. Nothing is different about how the cars are responding, just about how it's been perceived by new Prius drivers.

 

Of course I will consider it a flame when the first you say is "There is so much wrong with the post" when I am posting a truly anecdotal story. Don't know how could there be something so factually wrong from something I personally experienced.

The reports....hmmmm...well, I am telling you my reports and again what I personally have been experiencing for the last 7 months.

Don't believe me, I found this from the minutes of a City of Austin meeting. Here is an addedum proposing a speed limit of 55 mph for Loop 360 (the highway I am talking about):

Furthermore, I'll attach a satellite image of the area in question.

Also, don't think I have not tried braking harder, as that is what my first instinct was when the brakes gave out, but fact of the matter is, ummm didn't work.

Well then maybe I messed up on that info. I apologize. When setting up my account settings on Priuschat I didn't know which options I had in my Prius. I do know that it has a leather interior and so I just checked the option that had leather interior in it. I will go back to my profile and leave those blank, but then can you at least tell me what options I most likely have in my 2010 Prius or where I could find that info?

 

Thanks bighouse.

I believe that I fall right in the middle. I don't think that Toyota is the worst car company in the history of auto manufactures, nor do I believe that the Prius is God's gift to auto lovers everywhere. I absolutley love my car, but the fact of the matter is there is something wrong with it.

Now, I don't want to bring down the big bad Toyota company, but at the same time I do not appreciate all the run arounds I have been given as a concerned and loyal customer. I just want the issue to be resolved cause as I mentioned, I paid alot of money for this car (maybe not to some of you folks but it is alot to me) and I don't think it is right to pay for something that will not work as advertised. Especially when considering the fact that it could possibly endanger my life. You know, me living is kind of a big thing to me.

Fact is, I want it to be fixed and then I can go on my merry way and maybe even one day leave my day job and pursue an acting career, and the posters here can continue to debate with phishy posters who apparently conjure up stories of the big bad Prius that us newbies are not qualified to handle.

 

That turn-in looks exactly like the turn-in off Rte 168 ByPass running down the middle of the Outer Banks in NC. It's a 50 mph roadway with multiple driveways and roads accessing it every 100' or so. I've made this turn-in every day for 10+ years in 6 different vehicles, the last 4+ yrs in my Prius. First I never turn-in at 50 mph. I slow down to about 20-25 mph entering the turn. Coming out of it I'm doing 16-17 mph. I've never felt any such feeling from any vehicle including the Prius.

A block before the turn-in I let off the pedal and begin to coast to my street slowing from 50-ish to 25-ish by the time I reach the turn-in. It's never been an issue. I'm nearly 100% certain that I could take your own Prius and make the turn into your street or into my street and never feel this sensation.

I'm sorry it just does not register. It may be that I 'coast' more and brake less than you when turning, idk. But in all the '10s I've driven I can't make this happen.

 

Well there is the first problem. I think you may have misunderstood. The speed limit is 55 on the highway, so I move to the shoulder and slow down. I don't exactly stare at the odometer when the problem occurs, so I would guess by the time I reach the "bump" it is probably 20-35 mph I;m guessing (I'll actually try and get a real life measurement next time I go out).

However, in my first post I wrote that I have learned to deal with it. I now slow down to a near stop before I approach the bump and begin my turn. And like I said, whenever I know that there is a bump coming up, I will purposely slow down way more than normal. I have two concerns with this:

1. I should not have to adjust how I approach a small bump in the road (we are not talking speed bumps here). My vehicle brakes should be designed to withstand these kind of obstacles, as every car I have driven has.

2. What happens when somebody in front of me suddenly breaks, and I have to quickly slam on my breaks and there just happens to be a bump/pothole in the road. No time to slow down as I approach the bump/pothole. I hit my brakes, I go over the bump/pothole, my breaks go out like they usually do, my car moves forward as a result and boom I hit the car or worse a person, in front of me.

Those are my concerns.

 

On the contrary, the MT analogy is the complete opposite.

Not knowing how to operate a MT results in a deceleration of the vehicle unlike the Prius.

 

The operative word is stall. Failure results in a stall i.e. deceleration.

But it should not be mandatory to relearn how to STOP.

 

Yep more understanding.

I coast almost all the time without braking as long as I can. Most times I brake before the turn then simply coast through the turn depending on traffic. Other times I'll coast into the turn not using the brakes at all and simply slow down as the moments of intertia bleed off the speed.

The second situation is a lot easier. In panic situations you bypass the regen / friction threshold entirely. You simply get the full pressure of the Brake Assist and the friction brakes full force all at once. This happens frequently especially in heavy traffic. Even if you hit a pothole, bump or uneven surface during these panic stops you're not going to encounter this regen / friction threshhold because your foot pressure has 'cancelled it out'. Try it in an empty parking lot. Find a bad patch and drive up to it at 20 - 30 - 40 - 50 mph and jam on the brakes as you hit that patch. Wear your seatbelt and be ready to come to a screeching halt.

You might however lose some traction because your tires have been bumped off the pavement. But that has nothing to do with the regen / friction transition.

 

Often times, there is no clear delineation between "panic" and normal braking situations. A non linear brake response will turn what is a normal braking situation to a panic one (which I guess is what El Gato is experiencing).

Any braking system should respond as close to linearly as possible except for the extreme emergency braking situation which should be a rare event.

 

It should be mandatory to know what your vehicle does, how it feels, how it operates and to be prepared to drive this new technology. It's entirely different than what the public has been driving in the past.

• It does feel different.
• It does turn off of its own accord.
• It doesn't stall.
• It does have a different steering technology and different feel.
• It does get jump-started differently.
• It does have a different braking system that needs to be understood and felt.
• It doesn't have any loss of braking distance, it only 'feels' that it does for new users.
• It does have excellent panic-braking system as noted in every car testing result.
• It does use all electronic controls.
• It does require more thought in driving in order to get truly superior mileage ratings
• etc, etc, etc.

It's not mandatory to know how to stop the vehicle because it works the same as all other cars, but it is mandatory to know how it may 'feel' different. Not understanding this and expecting it to 'feel' exactly like every other non-hybrid on the road is simply wrong. It is very different.

Not being prepared for all the differences is what causes much of the misunderstandings about the Prius and the other hybrids. This has been the case from Day 1 when the first Prius' arrived.

 

It is different indeed, that much everyone agrees on.

Question is do all hybrids feel this way or is this particular to the TP's design ?

 

Exactly. This phenomenon happened to me once in the last 9,200 miles about 6,000 miles ago, when I was turning into a parking lot going too fast while lightly braking over washboard pavement. I learned not to do that anymore because it was due to driver error once I realized that the regeneration braking was transitioning over to the friction brakes and didn't like doing so under the demands that I chose to put on it. I haven't worried about it a single time since, because I know what to expect if I choose to do it again. Now, if I continue to turn into parking lots going too fast (which is not a good idea anyway) knowing full well that washboard pavement is coming up (which I do because I look at the road ahead), what kind of ignorant fool driver does that make me?
​

News Flash...tailgating in any vehicle is not a good idea no matter how awesome the brakes are. Your reaction times are just not that great.

I've learned to steer around potholes as well...much easier to do when you are not texting, etc. If you can't see upcoming potholes, you must be really riding the bumper of the car in front of you. If this is a continuous problem, no brand of car can cure you. You will have to learn the hard way.

I've learned several techniques, like P&G, that increase mileage. I've learned that driving 80 mph lowers the mileage and attracts attention from the law, so I avoid that more.

I've learned that the Prius is not a sports car. Oh wait, I knew that when I bought it. If I wanted to smoke the tires sliding sideways into parking lots, I should have gotten the Corvette.

What cracks me up is all the slow learners that keep doing the same things over known bumps that they are approaching and expecting different results. You could probably steer around 90% of them, not apply the brakes over them, slow down ahead of time, stick your foot in it really hard if it is an absolute emergency, take a different route if it is just too tempting, and not panic when you just must recreate the phenomenon.

You: "Look what happens when I try to use my regenerative braking over washboard pavement and bumps."
Driving Instructor: "Don't do that."

Now, if I can just learn how to exploit the truly awesome capabilities of my crotch rocket (motorcycle) when riding on ice. Should I slow down any? The manufacturer didn't warn me about this either or offer any software updates. Reminds me of the squids who do wheelies while riding in tank-top, flip flops, shorts, no helmet. You don't see them crying over road rash if they are still alive do you? Oh wait, yes, you do. The slow learners are out doing wheelies again as soon as they heal with no protective gear again. Hence, the moniker "squids".

This is no different than being more careful over special surfaces in the Prius when you know full well it is trying to do its regenerative braking gymnastics.

After the recall, you will still have much to learn. You bought a hybrid, now slow down and go learn how to drive it or go back to your father's Oldsmobile.

Secret disclosure: I hope to pick up another Prius from a scared owner soon. With the media's help, I may be successful.

 

Do you mean like when I changed from traditional brakes to ABS?

With that transition, I had to relearn how to stop.

 

Apparently the Ford's have the same characteristic as noted in the fact that they have adjusted all the FFH and MMH for the same issue. I believe that I read from some herein that the Civic hybrid does also but I can't be certain.


BTW Ford never notified anyone until after the Prius situation arose. Then they figured that they'd better come clean on what they did on the QT last Fall before all hell broke loose around them too.

 

If Toyota says there is a problem with the Braking, I would prefer for them to fix it rather than me have to relearn. If I do have to relearn, they should of told me when i bought the car.

 

That's why there are sites like this. I can take your 2010 and drive it and never encounter this off-putting feeling when braking. I'm just more familiar with the way the technology works and feels.

The vehicle is like nothing else on the road before it. Expecting it to be like a 60s or 80s or 90s ICE vehicle is highly unrealistic. It's different in just about every way beginning with the way you get into it ( SKS ).


Going back to the Manual Transmission analogy....if you walked into a showroom, plunked down your money and demanded to buy the latest and hottest 6 spd MT sports car it's assumed that you the buyer are rational and knowledgable enough to be able to actually drive it with all the quirks and differences of an MT as opposed to an AT. Even then, some things in an MT vehicle can only be learned after owning it for some time;

• how it shifts and where the most torque is
• can it be started in 2nd gear?
• how it reacts to downshifting two gears at a time, while braking, while accelerating
• where the 'engagement point' is
• how smoothly it engages in 1st gear
• etc, etc.

These are only learned by driving it and relearning as you gain familiarity.

 

Right..except it turns out it was never designed to act the way it is and Toyota already corrected the problem on vehicles manufacturered after Jan 2010.

 

Japanese press says Toyota will issue Prius Brake recall in next few days--NPR

Here's another tea leaf to read--it will obviously be overtaken by other events very soon.

Sunday's All Things Considered (NPR) is reporting:
The Japanese press is saying today that
Toyota will issue a recall for the Prius brake problem in the next few days.

What the fix would be wasn't really described. One suggestion was that it might take about an hour.

Edit:
Fifteen minutes later, NPR restated the report slightly differently--now they are saying that the Japanese press reports say a recall will cover "at least" Priuses in Japan. I.e., they are not clear as to whether the recall will include US Priuses.

 

Or maybe you might be misinterpreting what's being done. The software fix is being done so as not to make the new first-timers uncomfortable in the way it feels. It changes nothing in the performance or stopping power which are perfectly as they've been designed.

They're trying to smooth out the bumps in the road for the first-timers.

Soon though this will all be in the past and life will go on with the Prius remaining the best vehicle on the road for its intended purpose.