Unintended Acceleration -- While Parking

So cite your source that "all of the cars (whether new or used) will be pulled off the road until a fix can be applied" in a government-mandated recall.

 

Screw it. This is all FUD. The sky is going to fall .... what'll we do?

 

no, i will call it a fault in the software. but i do believe if they fhad found a fault so far, they would announce it and do a recall. did i say the gov had a secret agenda?

 

and if nasa says it's all fine, what will you tell your friend?

 

Didn't you hear?
Toyota paid NASA off.
You can't blame NASA, really. They need the money with all of the cut backs in the Space Exploration program. Since the US isn't going to fund another round of fake lunar landings, accepting bribes from a huge, multi-national cooperation is the next best thing.
NASA will clear Toyota of any culpability in the obviously malicious code that only targets US drivers with runaway Priuses.
I guess they're still pissed off about those bombs....

 

Wow, thirty pages of mostly smart-aleck replies. Thanks to the OP for a well-reasoned, unbiased post, and sorry about the fan club here. The Prius is a very complex motor vehicle, and it is certainly possible to have some issues with its control systems, which are all "by wire." I certainly hope I don't ever have a problem like that described, but I try to drive this car more conservatively than others I have had.

The "bump reflex" of the MG braking system is very disconcerting, and I can induce it at will by braking over rough surfaces. It IS a more intensely disturbing effect than that of any other ABS-equipped car I've ever driven. But, it's quite manageable IF one drives conservatively and maintains normal stopping distances at all times. This car is not designed for hot-rodding, and it rewards thoughtful and careful driving techniques.

All that said, I am not going to dismiss the possibility that there is a "ghost in the machine" that comes out at a very inopportune time and wrecks one's day. It is possible, although I suspect many of these parking lot incidents may be the result of inadvertantly bumping the cruise control "resume" activator stalk while the CC is on, and the car is moving fast enough to accelerate from that speed. Occam's Razor. The driver is cranking the wheel hand over fist to get into a space, the CC is on from the drive there, and, oops, there goes the car.

But, I'm not discounting the possibility that there is a failure mode, as well. People who do discount that are fools, imo.

 

Never heard of it happening with autos but Kawasaki did it this year with the ZX10.

"The next big blow for the ZX-10R occurred just a few weeks ago when Kawasaki put a worldwide technical hold on the model, and ask for units already sold in the United States to be returned to the manufacturer."

Kawasaki Releases More Information on the ZX-10R’s Technical Hold – Sales to Resume Late January

 

I had the quick acceleration happen to me a couple of times while parking. Only happened when the car was brand new, within the first couple of weeks of having it. A year later now I haven't had this reappear at all...

 

EVPV, I have to hand it to you as the tone of your responses have been calm and measured while sometimes being inflamatory with your insistence toward believing there is a problem. Without discounting what you believe, it's as if you won't acknowledge even the possibility of driver error, and the fact it's a widespread problem among a variety of brands and not just exclusive to Toyota, with the only common denominator being the human factor. Your statement re: the lack of information about NASA's research to date leading you to conclude there is a problem only furthers your lack of credibility. You keep referring to how you're waiting to hear the results, but you're already biased toward a result when no indication exist that they've found anything. Not very scientific and based purely on your personal and emotional bias. And what's with the comment about your friend being SOL if NASA's test don't find anything - that's an assumption there is still something wrong with your friend's car rather than your friend the driver did something in error. I could say more, but what's the point.

I think you're enjoying this tit-for-tat exchange and quite frankly it's been an entertaining read at times. Let see how long this thread can keep going before sinking under it's own weight.

 

I found the NHTSA site very interesting. Here are just a few of the recently filed reports, with a couple of my comments:

TL-THE CONTACT OWNS A 2010 TOYOTA PRIUS. WHILE STOPPED AT A STOP SIGN AT NIGHT THE VEHICLE WAS HIT FROM THE REAR. THE OTHER VEHICLE LEFT THE SCENE OF THE ACCIDENT. AFTER THE VEHICLE WAS HIT IT ACCELERATED TO A VERY HIGH SPEED. THE CONTACT ENGAGED THE BRAKES AND THE VEHICLE CONTINUED TO ACCELERATE AND HE THEN ATTEMPTED TO TURN THE IGNITION OFF BUT THAT DID NOT WORK, THE VEHICLE CONTINUED TO ACCELERATING. THE VEHICLE CHANGED DIRECTIONS CROSSED OVER A GRASSY AREA AND CROSSED OVER THREE LANES OF TRAFFIC AND CRASHED INTO A CONCRETE MEDIAN. SHE ALSO STATED THAT ALL THE LIGHTS ON THE VEHICLE FAILED NOTHING WORKED. A POLICE REPORT WAS FILED. ONE PASSENGER HAD INJURIES TO THE CHEST, KNEE, ANKLE, RIBS AND BACK. THE OTHER PASSENGER HAD A MILD CONCUSSION, BACK AND CHEST INJURIES. THE VEHICLE WAS DESTROYED. THE CONTACT WAS UNABLE TO PROVIDE A VIN. THE FAILURE AND CURRENT MILEAGE WAS UNKNOWN THE CONTACT STATED THEY ONLY HAD THE VEHICLE TWO WEEKS. VWB

(That's pretty disturbing - hard to imagine this NOT being a system failure after the initial rear-end collision.)


TL*THE CONTACT OWNS A 2010 TOYOTA PRIUS. THE CONTACT STATED THAT THE VEHICLE SUDDENLY ACCELERATED AND CRASHED INTO AND THROUGH A GARAGE; THE AIR BAGS DID NOT DEPLOY. THE CONTACT SUSTAINED A BRUISED HEART, BROKEN STERNUM AND TWO BROKEN RIBS. THE VEHICLE WAS DESTROYED. THE CONTACT CALLED THE MANUFACTURER WHO OFFERED NO ASSISTANCE OUTSIDE OF TAKING A COMPLAINT. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS APPROXIMATELY 3,400.

(Why didn't the air bags deploy? Odd.)


WE WERE BACKING DOWN OUR DRIVEWAY IN OUR 2009 TOYOTA PRIUS. AS WE APPROACHED THE STREET OUR CAR SUDDENLY MADE A LOUD WHINING NOISE AND STARTED ACCELERATING BACKWARDS. BEFORE WE COULD DO ANYTHING, WE BACKED INTO THE CAR PARKED ACROSS FROM OUR DRIVEWAY. AFTER WE COLLECTED OURSELVES, WE DECIDED TO MOVE THE CAR OUT OF THE STREET INTO OUR DRIVEWAY. THE SUDDEN ACCELERATION HAPPENED AGAIN, BUT THIS TIME MY HUSBAND REACHED OVER AND HIT THE PARK BUTTON AND WE STOPPED BEFORE WE HIT ANYTHING. I HAVE DRIVEN OUR OTHER TWO CARS DOWN OUR LONG DRIVEWAY SINCE, AND WE ONLY USE THE ACCELERATOR TO START THE CAR MOVING. AFTER THAT, WE ARE BRAKING ALL THE WAY DOWN THE DRIVE. THE ACCELERATION OCCURRED NEAR THE STREET WHERE WE PAUSE TO CHECK ON THE TRAFFIC. NOW THAT I HAVE CHECKED MYSELF WITH OUR OTHER CARS, I AM SURE I DID NOT HAVE MY FOOT ON THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL AT THE BOTTOM OF THE DRIVE, AS I BRAKE ALL THE WAY DOWN. OUR PRIUS IS OVER AT THE DEALER, AND WE HAVE FILED A COMPLAINT WITH TOYOTA. WE ARE AFRAID OF THE CAR. WE DID HAVE THE CAR FIXED AT THE RECALL. *TR

(Disturbing: the first I can believe was driver error (foot on gas instead of brake) but he was able to REPEAT it?? Lying? Possibly, but disturbing.)

Most of the reports on that site seem to be connected with the well-defined brake issue over uneven terrain. I discount those. But the sudden acceleration is concerning...

 

The first thing to look at should be the "black box" data - what does the data indicate?

 

Alternative explanation: Amid the confusion, the driver mistakenly hit the gas instead of the brake and kept repeating this mistake. Lots of us have made mistakes right after being hit due to confusion, including forgetting to put the car in park when getting out to check, attempting to get out while wearing seatbelt, and there was even a thread where the OP forgot the 3 second rule to shut down a flipped Prius.

I agree on the air bags, unless it was too low of a speed. Sounds like another case of pedal confusion if the car was right next to the garage.

Alternative explanation: The driver may have collected herself, but she didn't "collect" her foot placement and it hit the gas again. Especially given most of us have our foot on the brake when backing down the driveway on an incline, but it happened to be on the gas pedal instead. There are a number of cases where SUA occurred twice (Why? Would the car just decide to do it twice without any outside input?) and also many cases of pedal confusion where the drivers were "absolutely sure" they didn't have their foot on the gas pedal and some proven wrong with black box data in certain high profile cases. Not all cases necessarily involve lying, although many do if the Pepsi scare is any indication.

 

Just my opinion - this is "straining at a gnat." Trying to find an explanation that puts the driver at fault; not buying it. Most of the cases on the NHTSA site seem to be the "brake issue." The few that seem to be truly inexplicable, along with the OP here, give me significant pause. Complex systems are given to "one-off" failures. The Prius is an enormously complex machine. My jury remains OUT, and so should everyone else's. What disturbed me most about this thread is the "fan-boy" mentality - something I'd expect on a Honda Civic Rice-Rod, forum, but not here.

 

Any one can make a complain and write anything they like in the NHTSA web site. Until the complain is substantiated by hard evident and accepted as fact, it remains a complain.
So take the complains with a grain of salt.

 

I find it very easy to imagine operator error in all these cases.

As someone who has personally experienced (i.e. caused) sudden acceleration in a different vehicle, and read a number of reports about this common phenomena ever since the Audi 5000 fiasco of 1986, I now need to see certain sorts of detail in these reports in order to distinguish possible machine faults from ordinary operator errors.

These necessary details are completely absent from the reports copied here.

 

The OP isn't at all inexplicable. It sounds exactly like what happened to the BMW.

 

Therac 25 incident was caused by a race condition, it is the very definition of a race condition. It's in thousands of computer engineering/science books that states that it's a race condition.

Of course, the Therac manufacturer denied that there was ever a problem with the machine. In fact, the machine output report reported that everything was fine even though some of the patients received extremely high doses.

Since the acceleration/braking is controlled by a logic chip in the Prius and this logic chip also has to interact with the subsystems.....there maybe a rare bug that is difficult to isolate and related to a combination of braking/accelerating too quickly (timing problem where the logic chip engages or gets stuck in the wrong system...in this case the acceleration)