Unbelievably poor performance on snow

That's the problem. Some people have reported this issue in slick mud as well (maybe where it meets the lip of the road), and apparently it just shuts down power to the wheel(s) when it detects slippage.

With my car I can noticeably tell the grip-spin-grip-spin cycles, even if the grip times aren't enough to move the car uphill more than it slid down during the spin part (we're talking about an inch or two either way). But at least I can tell it's still trying, and it takes something unusual to get this much spin (stopping on good hill with wet snow and restarting, for instance). Apparently in some other Prius vehicles with another TC program it doesn't appear to try after an unrecoverable spin.

But even so, I enjoy driving in the snow, both normally and having a little fun deliberately sliding out. A couple days ago I took my son out sledding at a nearby forest preserve, and the parking lot was empty, so I put it in reverse, and floored it with the steering wheel cranked, and we just drifted (I think that's the right hip term) across the parking lot. My son thought that was great fun.

 

With my 2004, it will literally come to a stop. The first winter, before my winter tires arrived, this happened a few times on city streets, when other cars were moving with minor wheelspin.

I'll be the first to admit that my '04 appears to be an extreme example of this sort of behavior. A couple of months ago, I had the chance to drive another '04. There was no snow, but on gravel, the traction control behaved *quite* a bit differently than mine

Back in April I test drove a new '08, when there was still a bit of snow around. The TC on that car behaved far differently than on my '04. If I had to describe it, I'd have to call it much less aggressive, faster response, and easier to deal with

Note: on my '04, running aggressive studded snow tires, I no longer have any issues on glare ice or snow under five inches

 

My '04 will refuse to do that

However, with my FJ, when I shift into 4H it disables the VSC. I can then crank the steering wheel full left or full right lock, floor it, and the thing will do crazy doughnuts

 

I can't get my Prius to drift. The VSC works so well it pretty much takes the fun out of snowy parking lots. On the other hand, it takes the pucker out of slippery roads. I'll take the trade-off.

I have had traction control shut me down on snow, ice, mud, and gravel. Any sufficiently steep hill with poor traction is a good candidate for full on traction control paralysis. Mostly I have learned to work around the quirks.

Keep in mind that I take my Prius places that require crampons and rope, so the roads are not always great. An FJ would be a better choice, but I typically have long highway drives to get there.

Tom

 

I was hoping my new Prius would actually be better than my old RWD truck going up my driveway this winter. I used to have to get a running start to make it into my garage. I'm going to be pissed if I have to leave my Prius out on the street.

Back in my student days, I used to have a 1974 Honda Civic (I lived up in MA). I used to put snow tires on the front (not on the back) in the winter. That thing would dig through some pretty good snow banks at the end of my driveway (the kind the snow plow leaves after you shovel) with no problem. Never had any kind of handling problems with it that way.

So, my question is, has anyone tried just putting snow tires on the front, as opposed to the front & back. It seems like kind of a waste to put snow tires on the back. I know the tire companies don't recommend it, but they're in the business of selling tires.

 

I changed mine over at exactly 50000 mi. No complaints.

 

The reason that practice is not recommended is because if your rear tires have less traction compared to the front, your car may oversteer in a turn on a snowy or icy road (i.e., the rear tires will slip and the rear end will slide out.)

 

Hi all, I often face problems while driving on snow. Well... it was a nice thread and all your views was quite interesting and helpful.

 

Hi All,

The reason a spinning wheel can help even if its generating no traction, is that it has rotational momentum. So, as the car coasts down in speed, the tire may hit a traction zone, and the rotational momentum of the tire gives the car a lurch forward in speed. If the tire is stopped, as the car is gliding along - which is the result of the Prius traction control, the imparting of rotational momentum to the tire when the traction zone is hit, reduces car speed, rather than increasing it.

This is why its ever so important to not over pedal the Prius. If you break traction, the wheel slows down and then when you hit the good traction zone your car slows down. If you modulate the peddle carefully, the car will keep moving and wont slow down.

 

Hi All,

While not great in snow, I noticed one thing about the Hydroedge tires in the Consumer Reports tire summary on another thread. They have excellent ice traction. This may be why I am having less problems around here. Snow happens, buts the zones of icey-ness that are more of a problem in Chicagoland and the Prius. It seems the Hydroedge tires may be a good match to these conditions.

 

Oh god, never ever do that. It's incredibly dangerous. With high traction snow tires on the front, and the "all season" on the back, the car will be very easy to spin out and will generally display very weird handling on snow/ice, even with VSC

This is so dangerous, that the Rubber Association of Canada, and the Government of Canada, produced a website

Be Tire Smart – Play Your P.A.R.T. - Welcome

Click on the videos. They test a variety of vehicles: two Honda Ridgelines, a rear wheel drive Ford Crown Vic, a rear wheel drive Chevy Silverado, a rear wheel drive Mercedes car, a front wheel drive Mitsubishi wagon, and a Toyota Echo

In particular, watch the vehicle comparing the two smaller front wheel drive cars. They warned not to have just winter tires on the front, when the Echo was tested in this configuration, it crazily spun out

 

My 07 Touring with 40K on the original Turanza's have been acting up on wet pavement! I hadn't noticed it before, but I tried to pull out fast from a driveway to a road that was wet and there was no power to the wheels! Oncoming traffic was getting close and I backed off the pedal till I gradually got traction and accelerated to speed safely. The grade was slight and the pavement was wet.

Most likely it is the worn tires as I have not had this disconcerting problem before. I'm trying to decide which tires to get for the Touring 16" wheels with the best performance vs cost. Any experience Touring owners?

Lee

 

Interestingly, I found this thread when I came here to post one about Unbelievably good performance in snow. We went through a blizzard last night with drifts over top of the wheels, and snow blowing up over the car. No problem whatsoever. We were very proud of 'Sparky' and her new tires (Cooper cs4) though we got decent performance from 40,000 miles with the OEM tires so many complain about.

 

After a lot of reading and some recent driving in horrible "lake effect" conditions, I can see where the variance of opinions comes from. The car is great in the snow...when you're moving. I followed a Mustang up some very slight hills. He was ALL OVER THE PLACE. So much so, I backed off fearing he was going to spin out. My car (08 Prius with Michelin X-ice Xi2's on all four corners) didn't even light up the traction control light. AND I was pulling a trailer, albeit an empty one, and one passenger and lots of hunting gear. I easily had 600 lbs of stuff not including me, most of the weight over the back wheels. The Prius was great!

The counter of that, is on the same trip, I had to stop at a stop sign, then turn right onto a fairly steep hill. I did it, started up, but traction was lost and I gradually began slowing down. Before I reached the top of the hill I was going to have to make a left turn, a very sharp left turn. Fearing that I would be unable to make it, I instead turned into the nearest driveway and turned around and went home...the deer weren't worth it. Would I have made that hill? Maybe, I'm not sure. It is possible, but it's also possible that I would not have, and backing down the hill with a trailer behind me wasn't something I wanted to try, so I took the "easy" out.

A week later I drove into a muddy field. A pickup, a REAR WHEEL DRIVE pickup, made it all the way up a fairly gradual hill. I couldn't make it as far as he was, the traction control kicked in and stopped me. Of course it was a muddy field, which (I think) is the worst possible scenario. Snow on top, grass under that, mud under that. Nothing really to grab onto, yet the pickup made it and I couldn't.

When moving, this car is awesome. VSC and ABS combine to allow you to do some really stupid things on snow and not even know you did those stupid things. That Mustang and that pickup would have been in a snow bank if I tried some of the things I did in the Prius (on purpose). Yet when it comes to starting from a stop, or recovering from a spin, the Prius' TC KILLS forward momentum and tends to get the car stuck.

With the same tires on an icy/snow covered road (Michigan Hill for those familiar with my area...Berkshire Prius, you there? I was able to make it up one side and down the other safely, but the up side I was able to get some momentum before attempting the climb, and the downside I kept on the snowy part. ABS and VSC kept me going. A four wheel drive SUV was having trouble getting up the hill... it was very slippery.

This is the dichotomy we see on here, at least that's my belief. This car can get thru a lot of poor conditions very safely, but starting from slow speed or a stop up a hill is NOT something it is at all good at. Normal driving on normal (but very slippery) roads is something it is VERY good at. Even if the driver sucks or is unaccustomed to slippery conditions, it will save you. Just don't ever stop on a hill, even a slight one under slippery conditions! And PLEASE make sure you have good winter tires. This car needs all the traction it can get, that's for sure. Once it starts spinning, TC kills you.

I bought chains, that was my solution. Hopefully I'll never need them, but they are there just in case. I've already wished I had my AWD Forester back once this year and it's barely December!

Jack
Dryden (near Ithaca) NY.

 

Okay folks, read this one through four or five times if you have any questions about the Prius and snow. Jack has stated it exactly as it is. Normally I feel compelled to make additions or corrections, but he is right on the money with this post.

Tom

 

All season tires are inadequate for packed snow. You must have snow tires in a winter climate.

 

While snow tires are better than all-season tires, we run good all-season tires and they work just fine. I suspect our northern Michigan climate counts as a winter climate, with the possible exception of August. I wouldn't go so far as to say "must".

Tom

 

I live in hilly Central New Hampshire. Blizzaks have been very good winter tires for 3 winters. The traction control light on the dash is very useful for judging when you have enough pedal to move but not spin. Also, it is perhaps even more important to have your wheels straight and not cramped when trying to start out (or up) since this will also affect torque required and tend to create a traction control situation.

A compound formulated for ICE and snow is very helpful to improve results. Some snows are formulated for higher wear factor and may not work as effectively.

 

The real winter tires, with the snowflake in the mountain symbol, are a MUST in snowy areas. As stated already, should you have to suddenly slow down on a hill or stop and then try to go, Good Luck! That's where the problems begin.

If you don't have real winter tires, you had better be good at slowly going backwards to the bottom of the hill, usually with traffic behind you, then finding another, flatter route.

 

That's why I wish the Prius "traction" control worked the same as the Trac in my FJ. For example, it's pretty easy to find intersections where the curbside edge is icy, but the center portion is dry

With aggressive studded snow tires on my Prius, it has no trouble with one wheel on glare ice and the other wheel on dry pavement. It will launch with minimal use of the Trac.

However, if I were to repeat that with "all season" tires on, my Prius would remain motionless, the slip indicator lamp flashing

With my FJ, running studless Toyo Open Country G-02 Plus winter tires, if I'm gentle with it under the same test condition, it will smoothly launch without use of Trac. If I put my foot into it a little bit, the electric brake booster starts buzzing, the brake is applied to the spinning rear wheel, and it launches with no drama

If I really put my foot into it, the wheel on dry pavement will squeal a bit, and engine torque will be reduced a bit. Given how sophisticated the Prius engine management system is, there is no reason why the Prius couldn't have the brakes involved as well

The Prius front brakes are already involved with VSC