Typical water usage?

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by Celtic Blue, Jun 26, 2009.

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  1. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    wow ron... i was feeling bad about my water usage... umm, well.. thanks for brightening up my day i guess
     
    #81 DaveinOlyWA, Jul 10, 2009
  2. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Ron

    That just does NOT sound right. My quarterly bill, in winter, is usually 60-80 m3, tops. In summer, 300 m3, tops, if I very heavily water the lawn

    So that ranges from 176 US gals per day, up to 880 US gals per day.

    From what you described of your situation, something just doesn't add up. Maybe broken sprinkler line??
     
    #82 jayman, Jul 10, 2009
  3. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Have you checked your basement? I don't recall the indoor swimming pool...

    Tom
     
    #83 qbee42, Jul 11, 2009
  4. ronhowell

    ronhowell Active Member

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    Yes Tom, I have. It's called a crawl-space around here!

    On-topic, however, I did check the water meter last night before and after my sprinkler system, which has 6 stations with around 4 - 6 sprinkler heads each, went through a complete cycle (5 mins each station). Total water used came out at 0.3689 CCF, which at 748 USG per CCF works out to 276 USG! That is a lot more than I expected.
    So it looks as though that is where I need to focus my attention. Next I plan to measure the volume at each station to see where I can cut down.
     
    #84 ronhowell, Jul 11, 2009
  5. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Wow, that is a lot. Any possibility of a broken underground sprinkler line? I hope you have a backflow valve on the sprinkler system
     
    #85 jayman, Jul 11, 2009
  6. ronhowell

    ronhowell Active Member

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    Yes, it is a lot. I don't think there are any underground pipe breaks, as it would show up at the surface pretty soon, the pipe runs are not buried that deep.
    And yes, each station has an electrical solenoid and an anti-siphon valve controlling the various sprinkler strings.
     
    #86 ronhowell, Jul 11, 2009
  7. Celtic Blue

    Celtic Blue New Member

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    The sprinkler uses sounds about right, perhaps on the low side of what I expected based on your current in-home config/usage. You use about as much in 2 per day/twice week as I would if I watered the lawn once/week, but my run times are longer.

    If I did the math right that would only account for 13 ccF of the 32 consumed during your 62 day period. Throw in about 8 ccF for in house consumption during that period and accountability would be only 66%. But perhaps your watering schedule was still 3 times/week during the billing period?

    What are you watering? I'm not savvy on the irrigation options, but drip lines or such might be more efficient than sprinklers since you said there is no lawn. I doubt the twice a day on watering day approach is efficient. Unless one is reaching the point of runoff doing the watering in longer but less frequent batches should reduce evaporation loss.

    Other than the possibility of lots of handwashing occurring, is there any chance that a toilet flapper is getting stuck at times? Have you checked to make sure you have the standard 2.2 gpm aerators on your faucets?

    As a cross check on in-home water use, is your water heating nat. gas...or electric? If it is nat. gas. then you can get an idea if the gas use in non-heating months correlates with your water use. Although you have low flow shower heads, if for example you were each using 30 mins of hot water per day for showering, then one would expect fairly substantial water heating energy consumption.
     
    #87 Celtic Blue, Jul 11, 2009
  8. PriuStorm

    PriuStorm Senior Member

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    I agree, the sprinkler usage sounds about right. You have 6 stations, with 4-6 heads at each station = 24-36 total heads. Depending on what type of heads you have installed, they'll draw anywhere from 1 to 4 gpm. Figure an average of 2gpm.

    On the low side
    24 heads x 5 min x 2 gpm = 240 gals

    On the high side
    36 heads x 5 min x 2gpm = 360 gals

    I'm in the same boat as you, it sounds, with much of my usage going to the garden, and I need to get it cut back more reasonable.

    But with your overall usage, it does sound like something else is using a lot of water since you don't water every day and your daily average is much higher.
     
    #88 PriuStorm, Jul 17, 2009
  9. PriuStorm

    PriuStorm Senior Member

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    I'm afraid I don't really see how this helps other than to give you the convenience of being able to walk away while the water is running down the drain until it heats up. The water is still running down the drain while it's heating up.

    To save the water required to warm up, I think you'd have to recirculate to the hot water heater and have a temperature monitor or something to only allow water to flow once it's been heated up. I suppose you could also get an instant-hot-water appliance installed closer to your usage point.

    My main shower couldn't get any further from the water heater if we tried.. they're literally at opposite ends of the house. I save the warm-up water each time we shower to use in the garden.
     
    #89 PriuStorm, Jul 17, 2009
  10. Celtic Blue

    Celtic Blue New Member

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    It still helps because not as much water is used for heating up. Without it I can generally tell by the pitch change (viscosity reduction as water heats I believe) when the shower is coming to temp. Let's say your average shower is 7 minutes (420 seconds) and warm up generally takes 1 minute (60 seconds), and that you typically get into the shower 30 seconds after warm up (sometimes sooner, sometimes later.) In this case the device would reduce water & heating waste for that shower by one third, and overall consumption for that shower by 30/(420+60+30) = 5.9%.

    Saving the warm up water for the garden is fine, but the bigger loss is in the energy used for water heating.

    I've not considered recirc systems as I would expect them to be energy inefficient. Circulating hot fluid in an external loop will produce greater ambient losses than if the line just cooled. There is also the cost of the pump/piping and energy used for pumping.
     
    #90 Celtic Blue, Jul 17, 2009
  11. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Proves how wasteful a lawn really is. If really dry, I'll use one of those drip hose things *maybe* once a week. Give one spot 10 mins or so, move it to the next spot

    I probably don't use 30 mins per day, and I shower at least twice a day. Even with that, I'm still squeaky clean
     
    #91 jayman, Jul 17, 2009
  12. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    #92 jayman, Jul 17, 2009
  13. Celtic Blue

    Celtic Blue New Member

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    Update: with 3/4 our showers now employing low flow showerheads (~1.5 gpm range) we are hitting about 4.2 ccf or 3,140 gal/month. That's about 26 gal/day per person. I might convert the remaining shower shortly. Still haven't done any of the toilets yet, though I've got a Toto HET on order.

    I wonder if Ron succeeded in identifying/mitigating his water use problem?
     
    #93 Celtic Blue, Sep 19, 2009
  14. Celtic Blue

    Celtic Blue New Member

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    Although that is what I was thinking at the time, I see now that there are actually some minor savings to be had IF one uses on-demand recirculation (not continuous or thermostatic controlled.) The reason is that if it is done on-demand and circulates the cooled hot water back into the cold water line or back into the tank, fresh water addition is minimized. Also in winter less cold water is drawn into the home so the heat rise for the first gallon or two is reduced (e.g. if you have 45 F water inlet temp. vs. 68 F in the stagnant home plumbing.)

    Of course, the way I laid it out above is not instant hot water. One would instead be doing a closed loop warm up and some finite warm up time (probably shorter with the pump.)

    The devil is definitely in the details on this one. It might make sense for some extreme water restrictions or to cut some of the piping loss effects in winter. I've not tried to even estimate any potential savings scenario yet but there are two runs in my house that might be worth investigating: master bath shower and a long run to the kitchen faucet/dishwasher.
     
    #94 Celtic Blue, Sep 19, 2009
  15. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I learned from the homes I have built over the years. I now have all the plumbing arranged in a central "stack" so there is never 20ft between the hot water tank and the furthest tap
     
    #95 jayman, Sep 20, 2009
  16. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    What a concept - designing a home around efficient energy use. :)
    What did the architect have to say about your idea? (Or did you do that part too?)
     
    #96 hyo silver, Sep 20, 2009
  17. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Oh gawd, if you were to leave it up to an "architect" the entire home would be glass, with some artsy-fartsy garnish on it

    Yes, I also had to do the plans myself. There are a variety of computer programs you can purchase to do so.

    I've had good luck working with Beaver Plastics, maker of the Logix Insulated Concrete Form building system

    LOGIX ICF

    I go for very simple plans that maximize usable space. No fancy roof lines either, those valleys are a potential source of leaks down the road: simple gables work best.

    If you spec such a home with 12 inch ICF blocks, the resulting R value and solid feel of the home are beyond belief. Canadian window companies like All Weather Windows or Polar Windows make the proper tri-pane window with a PVC jambliner designed for such a wide wall
     
    #97 jayman, Sep 20, 2009
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