True? Toyo loses $5k per Prius on battery?

It is superior. Comparing the large format Panasonic battery to the ones in the Prius is an Apples to Oranges comparison. There's a forum of Rav4 EV owners. The consesnus of their drivers (roughly put, from my frequent reading) is that driving out an entire Rav4EV charge (ie; discharge), prior to a recharge, is what allows the battery pack to easily get an "over a 100,000 mile" life expectancy.

To me, it's all quite an irony. $5,000 Prius battery hub bub. Hummer v Prius cradle to grave comparisons. "Most won't buy a Prius" statements (though NO transportation vehicle sells anything close to 50% of all transportation sales). What is it that makes the Prius such a hot button ... what is that makes the Prius such a catylist for hoaky stories? What is it that make the neg threads go on and on, ad nausium. Riddle me that.

 

I think the Hymotion (A123) pack uses 80% of the nominal battery capacity (4 kwh usable out of 5KWH nominal). It definitely takes about 5 KWH of electricity to charge it, which seems about right (4 used, one wasted). No idea why the Volt is so much more conservative.

 

Ok, guys, you got me. Lack of PHEVs using NiMH is just a great big conspiracy. We could have had PHEVs on the road using NiMH, 10 years ago, if not for patent issues, and nobody in the world could get around the Ovonics patents. The fact that no manufacturers are talking about NiMH PHEVs is due to suppression of technology. The fact that all manufacturers are talking about Li-ion for PHEV is just gross misjudgment on the part of all of them, collectively. That can't possibly work due to short battery life under deep-discharge conditions. Whereas the best way to keep a properly-designed NiMH battery fresh is to discharge it fully every day. A123/Hymotion has decided to commit commercial suicide at the start of the conversion of transportation to electricity because they expect their most of their $10K battery packs to fail within three years. The batteries they make for PHEV (series 32?) must have the same characteristics as the batteries they make for consumer electronics (25650?). The Hymotion charge cycle wastes >40% of the electricity fed to it, using >5KWH to generate a net <3KWH usable battery power, thus making PHEV a carbon-increasing form of transportation, not carbon-sparing, unless the electricity comes from exceptionally low-carbon sources. Which means PHEV is just a dumb idea anyway, making the whole point moot. I have been wrong about everything I thought I knew in this area.

 

Hallelujah brother!

 

Very simple, GM has to give a 10yr/150000 miles warranty for the Volt to sell although there is no EPA requirement, because the hybrids have offered that.

In order to get 10 yrs live, it must have >3000 cycle life, 3000/356 = 8.4 yrs. One way to achieved that is using 50% of capacity and then cycle life will be double.

BTW, cycle life of Li battery is determined by the quality of the electrolyte inside the cell, not the materials or construction for the anode or cathode. The electrolyte wears out during charging and discharging.

 

Whoa, This is a rarity. Hopefully, the new members wont't take this seriously (like the gbee post on the evil Prius).