Traction Battery Failure at 107,000, need help wtih dealer

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let us know how it goes.......

 

The mechanic said that they are waiting for the voltage to go down.
Any thoughts?

 

*snort* See Patrick Wong's post here:
http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...traction-battery-failure-113k.html#post864611

 

I have a TCH, but if at 107,000 miles I only have to pay $1430 to replace the battery in it, I will be absolutely elated. It would just strengthen my loyalty to Toyota and their hybrids.

They may have jerked you around some to start, but their current offer sounds like they've more than met you halfway. Good luck...

 

You're all crazy, really.
Here is an announcement with one guy which sells cells from affected 2005 Prius cars. Cels, not the whole battery. Find which is bad and change it yourself. The cell cost 30USD!!!

Toyota Prius 7.2V Nimh Battery Module 6.5ah:eBay Motors (item 120431302491 end time Jul-06-09 20:20:51 PDT)

Say thanks, thanks, thanks!

 

Hi Andrei,

I cannot thank you for minimizing the technical issues associated with replacing a battery module within the traction battery. Under load, if a module pair voltage varies significantly from the other 13 module pairs, then the traction battery ECU will log DTC P0A80 with 2G, or P3006 with Classic.

Hence the idea of replacing one or more modules (which sounds simple) is not particularly easy to implement. The new module has to have a similar state of charge as the other modules. As the battery is charged and discharged while the car is being driven, all 28 modules must behave similarly.

If individual module replacement was so easy and effective, why wouldn't Toyota adopt this method for its dealer techs when dealing with traction battery issues?

If I had a traction battery failure out of warranty, my approach would be to install a battery from a salvage vehicle. This is currently priced at around US$500 plus shipping and offers a greater likelihood of success.

 

Sorry.. can you please offer me more details about "traction battery ECU will log DTC P0A80 with 2G, or P3006 with Classic"? Each cell is monitored separately, or it has a chip inside which communicate with battery ECU?

How do you know which cell is broken? You simply measure the charge/discharge or the voltage of it, compared with the rest of the batteries?

The cells should accommodate one with each other on this situation. Of course, this is made on time. Normally, all the rest of batteries are 'learning' to charge/discharge in a certain level, and the new battery may have different parameters (not voltage or amps) regarding the charging.

This should not be a problem, because you can charge it or discharge it yourself to be at the same level with the others when you first mount it. This should solve the problem. I'd prefer to do this way, rather than pay 2-3.000USD on a new battery pack, or to buy a SH one with 500USD from eBay. One cell with 30USD it's the best DIY way to solve your problem with the battery pack.

Toyota buys from Panasonic those batteries with maximum 500USD directly from factory. Why to sell you one cell (which is broking at 150k miles) and to obtain a profit of 100USD, when they can sell you the whole battery pack with a 2k USD profit? Have you ever think about this?
As a second way, I consider also your answer, because you need a special charger to measure the parameters of the rest of the cells, charging parameters and so one. It's not so complicated, but it's easy and a little risky. But for 30USD I'd try.

 

The traction battery ECU has sense wires that connect to each module pair. Hence the 2G battery ECU is able to monitor the voltage of 14 module pairs while the Classic battery ECU monitors the voltage of 19 module pairs.

If the ECU notices that the voltage of one pair differs from the other modules, then the ECU will log the DTC that I previously mentioned.

Remember that under warranty, Toyota absorbs all costs associated with battery replacement. I've had two batteries replaced under warranty with the three Toyota hybrids that I have owned.

Other owners have already tried individual battery module replacement. The most successful attempt that I know of was in Germany where six modules were replaced at one time (out of 38 in a Classic). However this repair only lasted around one year. So unless you enjoy frequently disassembling and reassembling the battery case, beware.

 

get a smart ( really smart one ) 7.2 volts nimh charger also used for electric play toy cars and helicopters

maybe more then one and put then on 1,2 3 ,4 cells depending on how many of these chargers your have.

and then charge them up to about 80% ( so thats the smart charger ;-) )

then you have all the cells at around the same SOC. ( als see if you can get a charger with a age/life/resistance indication. )


them you can reasable the pack. and cross your fingers but i think that will be fine from then on.

not try to get a second hand cell thats from the same year that your current prius is.

the new cell will have a lower internal resistance....
you well damage that cell and the cellss around it
that wy the compleet pack is replaced..

 

@Patrick Wong & the rest:
Do you have an idea, the HV batteries are not charged independently by the battery ECU when a special situation appear (one of the batteries is too discharged or too charged)? I know that ECU system records if one battery is more discharged than another and this can damage your warranty if Toyota catches you changing one battery, but I'm wondering if there isn't a separate charge system for each cell, or the cells are just monitored.

My car is under warranty now (from 2007 until 2015), but I want to know this, just for my information.

 

only monitoring

 

The battery modules are connected in series. It isn't possible for the system to charge or discharge one module separate from the others. All modules receive and deliver the same current.

 

The information from attachment may be useful. It tells you everything about the hybrid battery system and control..:rockon:

Enjoy the information!

 

I think it's a case of practicality. You lose less power to heat when it travels through a cable if the voltage is higher. A bundle of individual 14.4V cables running from front to back could have been done, but the overall loss would be higher.

Alternatively, you could split the power connection 28 ways in the back of the car, so running 200V front-to-back, but you'd likely need cooled power electronics to do that. The main DC/DC converter that converts from 200V down to 12V to run the computers, accessories, and charge the aux battery, is an integrated component of the water-cooled inverter unit up front.

It is far, far easier to simply connect the whole lot up in series and apply 200V across the entire pack to charge it (actually it's a higher voltage, more like 250V), but with the downside that the cells may not charge equally.

A NiMH cell is actually (nominally) 1.2V. These are built in the Prius battery as modules of six cells. The car monitors the modules in blocks of two. The monitoring is done with very high resistances so very little current flows to the ECU from the battery (virtually identical to a digital voltmeter).

 

OP: in your situation I'd ask the shop to tell me how much of the charge is the traction battery and how much is the ECU. I would then gamble that the ECU is ok and not have it replaced up front, unless DTC codes thrown at the time suggested otherwise.

With a bit of luck you final out of pocket will be way under $1k.

For the future -- you may just be on the short end of bad luck with that battery, but your story led me to wonder if the car is sitting for long periods in hot weather where very hot interior temps are present. If so consider alternative parking with shade, keeping the windows open a bit for ventilation, or a car cover.

Cheers, and good luck!