Featured Toyota's thoughts on EV adoption

I agree. It's really dumb for an entire industry to make parts for safety devices (headlights) that slowly degrade. I suspect that it's planned obsolescence simply because the parts are priced way over the cost and the technique and tools for replacing the foggy polycarbonate is needlessly complex on the Toyota models. Who of the readers on this thread would design a headlight such that the only way to replace a failed lens is to remove 2 fasteners from the inside of the engine compartment.... and then raise the car, remove the bumper cover and other parts beneath the car... and only then can you get to the last fastener from, if I remember correctly, the last fastener is accessed from within the fender well walls.

 

On the other hand, the headlight covers are easily renewed and look like new afterwards.

We had to renew our headlight lenses on both our 2004 Sienna and 2008 Prius. I bought a kit on Amazon and polished them out and sprayed with clearcoat when they were done. Both vehicles' headlights ended up looking like new.

Note: I did manage to screw up one of the Sienna headlight covers renew job not once but actually twice. The third attempt I was able to rescue my previous two botched attempts somewhat.

Realize that the points some were making is the safety devices should not degrade and many drivers may not notice the gradual degradation until the situation is dire. On the Sienna I didn't realize how bad the headlights had become until driving home on a misty/rainy winter evening when I had great difficulty driving at the posted speed limit because of my limited visibility due to poor lighting.

 

never be afraid to NOT go the speed "LIMIT" . . . . which btw is the max during day time ... no rain ... clear visibility. We have tons of flowers along the sides of the road up here, & most folks presume it's primarily clueless pedestrians. Sometimes. But speed coupled with bad weather/visibility/road conditions is the predominant cause.
this has been a public service anouncement

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Spare tires slowly degrade, and people rarely even check them. Their service life is around that of headlight plastic lens. As a safety device, they should have TPMS to counter that counter that degradation. Even the regular tires degrade, which effect safety in braking distance.

Headlights on the other hand are very easy to visually inspect. Repairing any hazing in the plastic lens does not require them to be removed from the car.

The Camry collected 3 chips in its windshield that needed repairs over 4 years, plus several tiny ones. This is material a hypothetical glass headlight would use today. With headlights sitting closer to the pavement, they are going to be struck by gravel, sand, salt, and other road debris. In the time a plastic lens reaches the point that the hazing requires repair, the damage and wear to the glass could require replacement, assuming it hadn't outright cracked before then. Buffing out chips isn't an options, and the chip repair resins introduces distortions. It's why chips in the driver's view of a windshield can't be repaired.

Soda bottle thin glass can not be used for headlights. It has to be thicker, which just compounds its weight disadvantage over polycarbonate. The thickness and lamination makes it difficult to form curves without distortion. What is the price difference of the gen4 Prius and Prime hatch window? Flat lights are mini parachutes on the front of the car.

I've done the repairs. It takes patience to not rush the buffing steps for a good outcome. Applying some type of UV protectant is important. With some headlights, the factory UV filter is just an exterior coating the buffing process removes.

Sealed beam weren't the only option outside the US. There were a lot like what modern cars have now. They were popular because replacement bulbs were a lot cheaper than sealed beams.

Headlight designs aren't just about looks. Aerodynamics is a big consideration with them. Old sealed beams are horrible on that front. In addition to being a forward facing flat vertical surface, there are forward facing gaps around it. The Sonic had retro round and flat headlights, GM went to the typical ones on the next generation for aero. Recent Mustangs also had such retro style lights. The space in front of them was sealed off by a very clear piece of polycarbonate for airflow that is hard to spot in photos.

Weight is a consideration for fuel economy, which is one of the things that has been keeping glass out of contention all these years.

Glass that performs like polycarbonate is possible, but it costs more. If splintering can keep a glass PV roof out of the US, it won't be accepted on a headlight. If you want cheap, it won't be glass.

The bulb types that aren't car lifetime, are easy to replace. The HHR was a hassle because access was from the separate fender, instead of the engine bay. Sealed beams that can be replaced from the front is asking for a punk to pull them off.

Halogen bulbs are cheap. Sealed beam versions will increase the price. Lifetime 'bulbs'(HID and LED) cost more, but they shouldn't need replacement in normal use.

Headlight housings could be difficult to replace. Then ones on the Sable popped off quite easily. This comes down to individual models, and that applies to many parts. That Sable didn't have the cabin air filter behind the glove box. Replacing meant removing the plastic cover at the base of the windshield, which never went back on right afterwards. Heard the one six cylinder engine in the Outback has to be dropped down to replace the spark plugs.

Replacing them is only going to be needed in the even of crashes and maybe old age. The housings can also be expensive. The Prime one sited one also included the LED assembly. Again, that should last the life of the car. The plastic corner bumper cover right under it was $94. It's only job is to look pretty, and maybe hold paint. Using unadjusted prices from the past will always make things look expensive. A $10 sealed beam purchased in 1980 would be $35.52 today. A single basic halogen bulb is around $10 now.

The illumination levels, beam direction, and glare reduction to others is greatly improved over what was available 40 years ago. Don't see how a sealed beam would improve that, while also remaining inexpensive.

 

Seeing how that includes the LED, this is a modern day sealed beam.

 

We already have these, and ... they are not the old bad dim sealed beam. I'm not sure what trollbait is talking about automakers can make headlight covers with inexpensive plastic or glass (both are specialty but not very expensive) and replaceable hallogen or led light sources.

Benefit of an inexpensive hallogen headlight with changable bulbs are that they are brighter, more efficient, can be more aerodynamic, and you don't have to throw away the entire assembly when just the bulb burns out. These in tco actually cost less than the old sealed beams, but most car makers have stopped. Remember aerodynamic cars used to have to have pop up headlights because the old tech was big. It looks like the corrola went away from inexpensive headlights in 2016, to custom LED assemblies and expensive recently. I know the 4 runner still has inexpensive lights

But all this really is besides the point. The sealed beam footprint stayed cheap because there were only 2 choices so all the manufacturers and after market companies products were interchangable. The regs have kept the US behind in technology for headlights for over 50 years, but that appears as if it will change this year.

Back on topic ... if you follow what actually worked about the headlight rule was just 2 standards gave competition for lower costs. We already have this by the market on L2 and L3 chargers. There is the tesla standard that works on both L2 and L3, and the ccs standard that works on both L2 and L3. The ccs is part of a combo plug and for L2 a smaller lighter connector J1772 that is part also works in a ccs socket which is why it is called combo plug. Tesla comes with a J1772 adapter and newer models work with a ccs adapter (that should also work with J1772 that is available from Tesla and third parties. No need for government regulation here. Toyota has decided to use ccs for the US and Europe, and this is the one that state and federal governments in the US subsidize.

 

I'm saying that glass that would replace polycarbonate would cost and weight more. Someone else is claiming cheaper and longer life is possible. Others want a return to sealed beams, but the reality will not live up to their memories. LED is life of the car, so replacement cost and ease aren't primary issues for most buyers.

As an example, halogen bulbs for headlights came out in Italy in 1962. The regulations and domestic car company resistance kept them out of the US until the late '70s.

Plenty of cars still use them; the 2016 Camry did. HID and LED are just better in terms of performance. I upgraded that Camry to LED for not much more than a set of high end bulbs.

When CHAdeMO was still a consideration, having the hardware for both it and CCS was a small cost increase for a DC charger.

 

Headlights that allow a car to meet IIHS + level ratings are more like systems than the simple one function headlights of the 1960s.

Things mine do:
Provide turn signals
Provide hazard lights
Provide both high and low beams
Switch from high to low "beam" as a result of sensing light in the opposite lane
Switch from high to low "beam" as a result of sensing light in front of you
Adjust the beam direction adding additional light to the inside of a turn
Signal their state to the driver via a display
Controlled by a single stalk without need to search through touch screen menus
Can be operated by an interface challenged individual
Can be operated by a person who drives the car maybe once a month
Put out a much more controlled beam than any conventional or a halogen bulb I ever had (30 cars experience not counting rentals)
In rain or snow keeps the beam below the drivers eye level.
Meet state and federal safety inspection standards

I have separate fog lights. They are lower and more exposed to flying debris.

Yes in the good old days I'd swap bulbs and even upgrade them.

But in 64 years of driving, never had a headlight bulb cracked of any material. Refinished only 4 poly-carbonate covers. Mostly I attribute that to parking in a garage both at work and at home. Ir under a car cover during winter hibernation season.


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Cleaner headlights will make your EV run safer - so that will help adoption. There, see how I brought the thread back on topic?

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So to get back on track again, everybody was waiting with bated breath on what the new CEO was really going to do . It seems Mr. Sato likes the way Lexus has approached making BEVs, after all they have more than Toyota, the UX 300e, the RZ 450e, and for PHEVs the NX 450h+ and RX 450h+. CarWatch website has his ideas on moving forward:
トヨタ新体制発表会見、佐藤恒治次期社長は2026年を目標に次世代のバッテリEVをレクサスブランドで開発と表明 - Car Watch

Partial translation:
"Aiming for 2026, battery, platform, car manufacturing, etc. are all optimized for battery EV
　In particular, in the area of electrification, which is attracting attention, the company plans to create vehicles that are optimal for battery EVs. “So far, we have been preparing to create a Toyota-like, Lexus-like BEV under the leadership of the Toyota master driver. Now, we will accelerate the development of BEVs with a different approach from the past.” The next-generation BEV will be developed under the Lexus brand.

　The next president, Mr. Sato, said that the manufacturing of vehicles based on the assumption that thermal energy is always present in internal combustion engines is different from the manufacturing of battery EVs, which need to generate thermal energy. He suggested that a new way of thinking in terms of management was included.

　Regarding the question whether Toyota is behind in terms of electrification such as battery EVs, he said that he has been working on "what we can do right now and reduce CO2 from the bottom of our feet", saying, "The global ratio of electrified vehicles is 23. %, and Toyota's is 27-28%." Although the actual electrification rate is high, there is a lack of communication where it tends to be seen as such, and it is necessary to improve on that side."

Here's the announcement from the Toyota Global:
TMC Announces Changes to Executive Structure, Senior Professional/Senior Management Employees | Corporate | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

You'll have to scroll down a bit past the introduction of the Executive intros so I put in the key points:

1. Three car-making themes

The evolution for which our new management team aims is to transform Toyota into a mobility company. We will do so under three car-making themes. They are: Electrification, Intelligence, Diversification.

1. Electrification

First is electrification. Energy is what sustains our lives.

Toyota must create cars with energy security in mind and contribute to achieving a carbon-neutral society.

The energy situation varies around the world. We want to stay in tune with customers around the world and provide diverse options.

That is why we will continue an omni-directional approach without wavering from our multi-pathway.

In that multi-pathway, battery electric vehicles, or BEVs, are also an important option.

Under Master Driver Toyoda, we have been preparing to create BEVs unique to Toyota and Lexus. Through these efforts, we have come to see the kind of BEVs we are aiming for.

Now that the time is right, we will accelerate BEV development with a new approach.

Specifically, we will develop next-generation BEVs for Lexus brand by 2026, with everything from the battery and platform to how a car is built optimized for BEVs, while expanding our current BEV lineup.

 

is Toyota's claimed percentage counting hybrids, plugins, as well as Electric cars? If so, that almost sounds like an extension of their prior ads - stating their cars are self-charging.
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2026 will mean 27. Cars will then be special order. 2028, a few will show up at dealers msrp+.
2029 things will settle in, and by 2030, they’ll have lost half their customer base

 

Everybody uses electrified to include no plug hybrids.

 

I think Toyota is pretty near losing its Prius customer base in the UK with lack lustre delivery 2020-2022 and totally cancelling the range in Feb 2023. On top of that NO Prius gen5 at all in the UK and Europe until at least Sept 2024 (conservative estimate and I'm not holding my breath).
So when my PCP is up in 2024 I , like many others I will seriously be considering my options.
And NO the Corolla and Rav4 are not options for me and my family.

 

Yes

 

I suppose if a car has a spark ignition, electric starter, and battery, it could be called 'electrified.'

Like the old 'mild hybrid' cars which was a bait-and-switch fraud.

Bob Wilson