Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor mats-LA TIMES

sudden acceleration has always in the past proven to be pilot error

 

I tend to agree.

I've been modifying cars since 1992 and in all the cars I've driven, raced, or raced for other people I have never had even one instance of sudden unintended acceleration. I've bored out throttle bodies, used aftermarket high performance throttle bodies, made adjustments to TBs and linkage cables to modify TPS voltage and even hand fabbed parts to attach a throttle body to superchargers. I'm not an expert on the subject by any means but I've been around alot of cars both stock and heavily modified and I have never witnessed nor had any experience with the above mentioned "phenomenon". Maybe I've just been really lucky?

 

no, it's just pilot error ...

i once had the throttle return stick on a 302 HO

but it wasn't equipment failure as much as it was an unsanitary installation

vroom.

 

There is no money for lawyers if it is driver error, so it will have to be some undetectable, irreproducible vendor error to enrich lawyers. The rest of us just have to suffer.

 

This statement is what scares the hell out of me these days. Everyone wants to sue! One of my colleagues (doctor) had two teenage girls come into his office. They were driving over a bridge and ran out of gas going up the bridge (...), so they just stop in the middle of the bridge. They got hit, and now they are suing the person who hit them. They were perfectly fine, but their family wanted to get some money despite the fact their idiot daughters ran out of gas going over a bridge.

Makes me want to vomit!

 

I have probably told the story a few times now.. I experienced pedal error once when I was learning to drive. It is extremely traumatizing. You truly do believe that your foot was on the brake. It's like when you think there is one more step, but a million times worse. I was very lucky that I realized quick enough, otherwise the car would have gone into the side of the house. I wonder if I would have realized the error quick enough if I had been a more experienced driver. This sounds paradoxical, but it seems like more experienced drivers may not even consider that they've got the wrong pedal.

 

My wifes 1969 Camaro was subject to a recall for runaway acceleration. In the case of this Camero, it was an engine mount problem. Heavy acceleration could torque the engine up out of the mount, pulling on the accelerator push rod. The pull on the push rod opened the throttle, which agrivated the problem.

Runaway acceleration due to equipment fairure or bad design can happen, but it's pretty darn rare.

Tom

 

No, not always. Most of the heavily publicized ones have been. But there are freak mechanical things that can go wrong and I've witnessed a few of these, one on the farm truck I mentioned earlier.

Some here are probably old enough to remember cruise controls going nuts in 70's era GM's. I think this was related to the wearing of a plastic gear or similar failure on the odometer/speedometer takeoff but am not sure. I can tell you that it was quite exciting in one of the big V8's when the cruise decided to floor it... Of course, it was also easy enough to shut off the cruise.

 

Besides, back in those days we didn't have cell phones. Rather than make a 911 call, all you could do was fix the problem.

Tom

 

ON GOOD MORNING AMERICA, there was a lady there who claimed that her PRIUS accelerated out of control and she lost control when her car went into a pond or riverbed. Her PRIUS was blue and the front end was smashed. So, YES, the PRIUS is involved with this.

I would like to ask this, IS IT TRUE THAT YOU HAVE TO SHIFT TO NEUTRAL AND HOLD FOR THREE SECONDS??? IS THIS FROM ANY SPEED?

 

A few things here. First, when I had my Prius, I found if I hit the power button while in drive, and moving, it turned off and put the system into park, made a horrible noise too. Vowed never to do that again.

Second, I noticed a few times in my TCH, that it would surge while slowing down. I don't know the reason behind it, but it was not normal. I would be coming to an intersection with constant pressure on the brake and the car would surge forward and I would have to apply more pressure, then the brakes would grab and throw us forward. It didnt happen a lot, so when it did, always caught me off guard. My wife always thought I was goofing around making it stop hard on purpose, until it did it to her. Since the car didn't have a Tach on it, I cant say one way or the other if the engine surged or what, but it wasn't normal. It also wasnt the regen kicking off to standard brakes since it always happened while doing greater than 20 MPH.

Third, one time I accidentally hit the shifter into Neutral in the TCH, and wondered Wth, why is it slowing down and why is the pedal dead. The shifter between the TCH and the ES posted previously are not that different, so knocking it into Neutral should not have been a problem.

Fourth, I have had a runaway happen to me. I was driving an 18 Wheeler and the throttle spring came off, pedal dropped to the floor, and away I went. I turned the engine off, and eased off to the side of the road, with no power steering I might add. If you think no power steering in a car is bad, try it in a 80,000 # truck!

I have also had a floor mat creep up between the brake and gas pedal, almost causing me to run into something, I quickly slid the mat back with my left foot while braking, and that solved it. I replaced the mat with one that had teeth and never had it happen again.

My Ford Fusion has a thing it does that Ford just started doing, when you press on the brake it puts the engine into a braking mode, no matter how you have the gas pedal applied. It will close the throttle when the brake pedal is depressed (I tried to do a brake torque, that's how I found out that little tidbit).

Now since I have experienced the surging in the TCH and the cars that have had the problems all have DBW throttles, I myself won't rule out that there can be a computer glitch somewhere that could cause it. Heck my F350 is DBW and it has a mind of its own sometimes when idling!

 

People have also claimed to be abducted by aliens. Some can show you burn marks.

You can power down a Prius by pressing the Power button for three seconds. You can also shift to N by moving the shifter to N and holding it there for about three seconds. Pressing Park will also shift the Prius to N.

Tom

 

Do you recall if this was this under 7 mph?

This sounds a lot like the traction control kicking in..

 

I think it was 15 MPH, I was wiping snot ff the dash after I had sneezed, and pressed the button.

On dry pavement? I don't think so, TC wouldn't cause the car to surge forward, I have driven the car to its limits and know where the TC points are, this was a definite make you rock back in your seat kind of surge, that was quickly followed by being thrown forward as the brakes grabbed.

 

I lost power steering on my old 1989 Corolla (belt) and it was possible to steer, though very heavy and on curvy mountain roads (up in Napa) it was pretty difficult to go around the corners. But on a recent Dodge Grand Caravan I had, it was near impossible to steer when the engine stalled.

You said that several european cars makes and Chrysler cancel throttle when brake is applied. I know this isn't the case on Chrysler -- just youtube for brake stands and you will find tons of modern Chrysler cars doing brake stands. I know the Dodge Caravan rental I had (a 2009) had no trouble doing a brake torque launch. My friend also used to do brake stands in his E46 BMW as well.

I guess I haven't tried going 60mph and pushing both to the floor, but I am suspecting if it allows you to do it while stopped, why not while moving. (In fact, FWD cards doing brake stands thing they are running at speed due to the speed sensor on the transmission registering speed from the spinning wheels.)

 

Oh yes, but try making a quick emergency maneuver in that state. Changing lanes, even turning a corner with deliberate and slow inputs to the wheel are fine, just heavy ... but avoidance maneuvers, even at highway speeds will be difficult.

My first two cars had no power steering at all -- but there is a big difference between pushing fluid around a rack with power steering off, especially at speed and a non power steering rack.

My point is, if someone is going to crash from a stuck accelerator, then they are probably going to be shocked and have issues with no power steering as well.

 

Ptpppd

 

It is true that people will claim to be victims if there is money in it. So lawyers will make sure every car is involved in this.

It is also true that some small number of unintended acceleration has a mechanical cause. (I was a passinger in a Ford Windstar where the hood came up and snagged the throttle cable, it makes for a memorable drive)

1) You can brake to a complete stop, then turn off the car. That works on every car. Do not brake just to slow down the car, that will make your brakes fail. Braking distance will be MUCH longer than normal. This works on all cars.

2) You can shift to neutral. In a Prius you can do this 3 ways: Shift the paddle to Neutral, there is no detent for N and you have to hold it there a while, Shift to R, Shift to P. If you are not driving a Prius this may be bad for your engine, tough, it will save your life.

3) You can turn the car off. In a Prius you need to hold down Power for 3 seconds. In almost any car you will lose some degree of control (Power Steering, Power Brakes, Headlights, etc.) but you won't keep going faster and faster.

4) You can aim for something soft. Not a good choice, but if you fail to do 1 to 3, it is your last chance.

5) In the event something really is holding your gas pedal down (floor mat, right foot, etc.) Use your right foot to lift it while you brake with the left foot. This is unlikely to work, but beats calling 911.

Yes, from any speed.

 

They'll win that case too. I'd be surprised if the second driver wasn't ticketed for, failure to reduce speed to avoid an accident.

 

My pedal error incident happened decades into my driving experience, and the thought of it being the wrong pedal didn't even cross my mind while it was being pressed.

But experience caused two other reflexive actions, either of which was sufficient to instantly terminate this incident --
(1) hit the clutch, an advantage of having a manual transmission;
(2) release the brake and try again more gently, a requirement in winter driving in non-ABS vehicles on ice and solid snowfloors when the brakes 'fail' from loss of traction. (It wasn't winter, but the reflex still kicked in.) Amazingly, not only did the engine quit racing and brakes start working, the pedal feel and position 'changed'. Only then did I realize the pilot error.

This incident happened under serious fatigue, and was over before I had any time to actually think. But it left me very wide awake.