Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor mats-LA TIMES

Reread CR. What I have seen is 'reduced control'. You should lose only the power assist, not the braking and steering themselves. Those of us who have experienced sudden engine death in previous cars know that steering and brakes still function, albeit requiring much more muscle.

The other risk with shutting off generic cars is turning the key too far and locking the steering wheel. But moments ago I verified that my Prius steering does not lock. I can still turn the wheel while the car is cold, dead, and parked.

You must choose your evil here. In my own experience, pumping the (non-ABS) brakes once was how I discovered 'pedal misapplication'. But in a true engine runaway with traditional vacuum-powered brakes, pumping will quickly cause loss of power assist.

There must be a generation gap here. To much of my generation, accustomed to manual transmissions, Neutral is intuitive. But apparently it is not so obvious to later generations.

 

While waiting for the officer, slip the floor mat over the accelerator and brake.

Officer, "Do you know how fast you were going?"

Driver, "I don't know, the car took off by itself! Nothing I could do seemed to have any effect! The car was a run-away! The only way I could come to a stop was to shift into neutral! Is this one of those run-away Toyotas?"

Officer, "Oh, let me see that floor carpet. I see the problem ..."

Ok, we can dream.

Bob Wilson

 

it takes a lot of muscle to control a car not running and some of us are not strong enough to control it.I think consumers report way would be the safest way to stop a runaway car.I tried it and it works.
could be a generation gap,Im 72

 

It does not require a lot of muscle control to steer a car that has lost power steering if you are at speed. It is only when you drop below 30mph or so (depending on the car and size of front tires). I drove for years in a 1987 Mustang in which I had literally clipped the powrr steering lines and drop without power steering. I ran narrow tires up front for drag racing but only at speeds lss than 5mph did I ever consider the steering to be difficult.

An older person or someone extremely out of shape may have problems at low speed but at such slow speeds you are nearly out of the danger zone already. We're talking about high speeds here.

 

Bob,

Good explanation but you should substitute the word "torque" for "power" in this paragraph. 72% of the engine torque always goes to the wheels and 28% to MG1. The amount of power depends on the speeds of MG1 and final drive/MG2.

At cruising speeds MG1 may be close to stationary and so producing very little power (or even consuming power in energy circulation or hysterical mode). As you say the electrical losses are only applicable to this small amount of power and so help the overall efficiency of the transmission is high.

kevin

 

Hysterical mode or heretical mode? I thought there was something funny about this post. This must be why my Prius laughs so hard when we get up to speed.

Tom

 

But in Australia you need to wear the badge up the right way so you can read it while you are upside down.

 

It depends on the size of the car and the speed. For steering a Prius with no power you would be able to do it but if you are not strong you would not be able to make sudden turns. Changing lanes is easy (but not as easy as with power) at highway speeds. A heavier car like a Lexus RX would take more effort. At slow speeds it can be difficult to steer with no power.

For braking once you loose all power assist you practically need to stand on the brakes to stop.

 

Try turning a large, ridiculously overloaded flat bed with no power steering (ever) at low speed. I did this for work back when I was young and still had long distance runner endurance, it wore me out. My shoulders and chest would be sore for days. (Can't believe I didn't break that truck...nobody told me the load limit and I was a novice so I would pack it full since I was handy with the forklifts. I probably had 3x the load rating on the vehicle when hauling cement to the batch plant, but damn I was quick at moving the loads and that made the front office happy. It's amazing what you can do when you don't know any better.)

I'm with you on this, it is the low speed steering that is the problem.

 

The great majority of your generation should have been accustomed to manual steering. I'm nearly a generation younger, and still had significant practice.

For a variety of reasons, among my own and my parent's fleets, I have had to control five different cars on dead engines at speed, with loss of power assist. The only memories of difficult steering are at parking lot and residential street corner speeds, where collision mortality is extremely low compared to highway speeds.

If passenger cars are uncontrollable without power assist, then the general public is just one simple broken power steering belt, one engine stall, one vacuum leak away from death. From a safety engineering standpoint, this is unconscionable. Fortunately, on the cars I have driven, it is also false.

 

i've had a couple of jalopies without power or power assist
a favorite was my 1986 Jeep CJ7

darn thing had no power steering, no power brakes, and only a four speed ... man i loved that ride

1965 Ford F100 with a 400M ...
1971 Bronco with a 302

loved them Ford's too, even with their leaky rear main seals

lost a belt in a '99 5.0 Ford Explorer at the apex of a turn ... ouch

 

Lucky I wasn't around back then hey?

By patsparks at 2007-01-25

 

So Pat, who's driving with you there on the passenger side?

Tom

 

I had a 1972 Jeep C-J5 which we bought new in 1972. No power anything. The steering was 3 1/2 turns lock to lock. It had 304 V8 engine and a three speed transmission. With that engine you could pull away from a stop in any gear.

Tom

 

In the US, "bear" is colloquial for highway patrol officer:

Pat's partner or supervisor (not that labor relations in Australia are any different than in the USA?)

Bob Wilson

 

They wouldn't have let you on the installation. And the MP's would have pulled you over for driving on the wrong side of the road.

 

oops

kevin

 

right on, i gotta get back to basics

 

Sorry Bob, I have to call you out on this. That is not a bear.

 

Can you say that with a Crocodile Dundee accent: "That's not a bear. *This* is a bear."

You guys must hate that accent, since we dumb Americans now expect all Aussies to have it.

Tom