Toyota's Plug-in Distain - Part TWO

me too.

 

I just noticed that the hydrogen gas pressure is to be 10,000 psi. Man, that is huge!

I'm thinking a bad failure in the refueling equipment because something breaks after much usage of the refill hoses.

(Ever see an air hose snake around when the nozzle breaks? Now imagine this with the hydrogen filler hose, blazing a huge flame, hosing everything around with fire! )

10K psi is lethal in my estimation. And that with a highly flammable gas.

My thought after one bad incident with the hydrogen fueled car and now all cars are on the parking lot, not being able to be driven, shut down by the government.

I hope they build lots of safety equipment with this.

I'll take an EV with a battery any day.

 

oh, the humanity!

 

We live in a single family home tract (sp?) It seems like so many people use their garages for storage and do not put a car inside. Maybe people are too lazy to clean out the garage for a plug-in or just maybe they fear a car in the garage is a fire hazard, espcecially an electric car.

 

As opposed to a gasoline or hydrogen car....

Even if the garage is full, it's easy to install a charging station on the outside of a garage.

 

I agree for many it's laziness but I also think it's man's natural tendency to horde. The longer one lives in one location, the larger the clutter.

During some remodeling phases, my garage has filled with construction materials and debris for weeks/months at a time. My 240v charger is located near the front left corner however the 25ft cord is still long enough to reach a car parked outside. I also have a 120v outlet near the garage door so even the stock charger will nearly reach the street. I adjust the door opener to leave a small gap so the door doesn't rest on the cord.

 

See the spontaneous 2010 Prius fire in Gen III section.

How about pranksters yanking charge cables out during the night? Or do charge plugs have a lock or phone app if cable tampered with?

 

if we're changing this thread to why people don't buy plug in's, my guess is that there is not enough incentive. and yes, most people don't want to bother plugging their car in, why would they?

 

Not sure why people get all PO'd that Toyota doesn't produce a 'Leaf - like' car. Just go buy a Leaf. I'm sure there's plenty availalbe. Seems like lot of people see FCEV as dead already. Instead of ranting on car forums, have they contacted Toyota corporate to express concerns? Maybe people are all PO'd cause Toyota is holding back on PiP.

 

The new Volt cord will have a lock. Don't how many have a lock now, but some EVSE's have them.

 

I suspect the problem isn't with the plugging but rather that the overwealming vast majority of car buyers don't understand the joy and serenity of driving an electric powertrain.

Full hybrid drivers get some sense of that for brief periods but then very few drivers understand the benefits, and yes, joy of driving a full hybrid versus a conventional car and it's constantly shifting and gear hunting transmission and it's archaic all-crude-all-the-time engine which surges unevenly away from stops.

Tesla helps out here because pretty much everyone who hears about it understands that it's fun to drive. Now they have to learn to make that association with less expensive EVs.

One problem is that Nissan, Chevy, Ford etc. and other "mainstream" EV-centric plugin makers don't emphasize the joy angle in their advertising and instead focus on ecology, economy, technology, or reduced gas consumption. That's been effective with early adopters but it's not a good way to reach the broader market.

I'm wondering if this will start to change now. The BMW i8 is certainly positioned as a fun and fast car but it's still an expensive exotic car.

I suspect the transmission changes in Volt 2.0 will allow it to additively combine electric plus engine output for a total system output of 225-250 HP with a 0-60 close to 7 seconds in hybrid mode (versus 150HP and 0-60 in 8.5 seconds in Volt 1.0). I'm hoping they will advertise that while I still hope that owners won't drive like that in real life. I see plenty of sedate Model S drivers relaxing on their commute at or a bit below the speed limit around the San Francisco Bay Area.

 

There's no totally safe technology when it comes to automobiles. Gasoline is volatile and flammable, batteries can short out and catch fire and nothing is inherently safe or inherently dangerous. It all depends on the design, the safeguards and controls and how they are implemented.

Some industry proponents were making a lot of hay about how unsafe propane vehicles are, based on a fire in an underground parking garage, but anyone can make similar claims about any other technology. It depends on who's bread is being buttered, which technology is "dangerous."

Cars are getting safer all the time, but they will never be totally safe. No matter how well something is designed, the weakest link can always be exploited. Cessna aircraft shut down all manufacturing for a time, because it was possible for a poorly-trained pilot to crash their planes, therefore they were considered liable for it, and the lawsuits were the only things flying for awhile at Cessna.

Safety is everyone's responsibility. It can't all be heaped on one party; the manufacturers, the maintenance personnel, the rule-makers or the users. Everyone has to work together to manage the risks. Blaming everyone else never gets the job done.

 

trust me, main stream america is not hearing about the tesla, and they will never understand the joy of electric driving. we spend too much time on priuschat, our brains are fried.

 

Compared to most start-ups, Tesla has done a stellar job of introducing itself to the mainstream.

 

well, i wouldn't know how to compare, but most people i talk to, have heard of tesla, just like they have heard of goldman sachs. has no affect on their lives, as far as they know.

 

I don't know about everybody, however here is why I am irritated at Toyota.

Toyota took a bold step forward with the Prius and they went "all-in".
Making no profit until the second generation they kept moving forward, showing how efficient and well rounded (passenger space/cargo space/efficiency/cost) a car could be.

The first generation Rav4evs were very well recieved with many still on the road.

They entered into a partnership with Tesla, and Tesla benefited greatly at a time where they really needed it.

I had very high hopes that Toyota would continue to show the way forward in alternate fuels, especially electric.

I was eagerly awaiting the roll out to MN of the PiP. Which was then delayed, and then delayed, and then delayed with no future plan of a rollout given.

They started advertising FUD commercials regarding plugin vehicles, stopped the RAV4ev, and executives continue to talk down Electrics.

So in short, I had huge belief in the company and their vision, and they let me down repeatedly.

 

There are a lot of tesla's here. I consider in austin they are looked at as a green more relible bmw or mercedes, most can't afford. When the lower priced model 3 comes out there will be lots of takers here.

 

but that's austin, isn't it. i'm sure they'll sell a lot more as the price comes down. not to main stream america though.

 

I think if tesla gets 2% of the american and chinese market they will be doing great, and will push bigger auto makers to produce plug-ins. I don't at all think they are going to sell like corrola's or silverados, but prii don't sell in those quantities outside of japan, so why would we expect a start up to be able to do it.