Toyota Unveils Fuel-saving Technologies for New Prius

i think we need links to toyota claims. and please don't link articles by auto writers interpreting toyota's words.

 

i kind of remember that they had one curve showing that maximum acceleration was higher... however they never said it was faster, so based on that, I dont think it will be faster.

 

Faster acceleration would be something I would 'hold back' as long as possible. But there are some interesting facts embedded in what has been released:

• 38% -> 40% ICE efficiency :: 40% / 38% ~= 105% power output change, +5%
• lower transaxle losses :: more engine and electric power to the front wheels
• higher traction battery power rate :: more power to augment power to MG2 and rear wheels
• rear wheel torque would nicely limit front wheels slipping under maximum acceleration
• moving a block of lead over the front wheels improves front wheel, launch, friction.
• control law enhancements
• reduced body roll due to suspension
• stiffer body due to high-strength, 'safety' steels

So I have an open mind about the 2016 acceleration and patient enough to wait. <GRINS>

Serendipity, the VW Jetta TDI becomes emissions 'legal' and a little softer performance . . .

Bob Wilson

 

The new engine is 2 hp lower in power than the gen III. The easiest way to raise power is increase max rpm, but toyota doesn't appear to have done that. Max fuel and max power have been slightly reduced, although its so small you probably can't notice it.

This is claimed but the claimed number is very small, not enough to move the needle.

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It would be great for toyota to announce the total power of the system, and the weight of the car. They seem to have had 100 opportunities, and seem to fail every time. Why the secret? My guess is simple incompetence, rather than really bad numbers. The rumors a month ago was for around 150 hp, but battery specs 1.3 kwh nimh and 0.76 kwh limh don't look like they will be that high to add to the 96 hp engine. Gen 3 battery is 36 hp, I expect higher, but not 52 hp. E-Four is rumored to not be available in north america.

Moving the battery up front reduces cost (it doesn't need to be a more expensive sealed type as in the gen III), and improves cargo area. It will not help acceleration or handling. The gen III was already heavy in front, I hope they managed to move the center of gravity back in spite of the battery move.

None of that other stuff will help acceleration. Its really all up to weight and battery power, and psd ratio.

 

It is possible that PSD base a wider ratio range so they could have reduced 0 to 60 times and improved acceleration. I am betting the reason Toyota is not publishing weight and power because the US configuration has not yet been finalized across range, EPA tests are not finished and they want to kill car announcing in advance that it is a step back from Gen3, at least from raw number prospective. Agree 20% loss reduction will have a modest impact. Assuming that Gen3 loss is 6-8%, gain will be 1.2-1.6%. Will have impact on MPG, but not on acceleration.

 

My thinking it is 'hold back' because it is so obvious. Regardless, we're the remaining Prius fanboys.

Bob Wilson

 

and when you say 'we're', you're not including everyone here.

 

What is to be gained? I think the vegas thing was really a inept stunt that backfired. This reminds me of the around 15 mile range of the phv, then the 11 epa including gas. Rip the band aid off.

We think its not going to be 2900 lbs and 150 system hp, which were the rumored numbers. Just tell us what it is if its obvious. Do you have the obvious numbers?

The epa we were directed to around 10%. I figure that is 53-57 mpg. Not much difference there, and maybe they don't know it yet. They do know the weight and the hp.

 

for the hundredth time, they're 'creating buzz'. promo, marketing and advertising aren't that far apart.

 

I agree, but could you possibly think of a more verbose way to say "engine breaking", lol.

 

You mean they are trying to capture the magic again of butt face?
Ad of the Day: Toyota's Giant People Person Says There's a Prius for Everyone | Adweek

Then yes, I agree, the vegas reveal was a bit creepy, and the lack of a real launch in tokyo is definitely unconventional.
I mean stringing it out is pretty much text book what not to do.


Compare the buzz to tesla's autopilot to the twitterverse hate of butt face, or the big Wth vegas moment.

OK though. Why do they want negative buzz?

 

I concur with your evaluation. Infact they moved the 12V to front, and that to higher position than previous location. This raises CG little bit.

But now Hybrid battery also moved forward from trunk to under rear seat. So weight moved forward considerably making front heavy, even more front heavy. Not sure how much the new suspension setup compensates for that.

We already know Engine power is lower than Gen 3, but difference is miniscule, and probably compensated because of early torque in the RPM range, as well as probably broader torque curve.

Real concern is, the HP and Torque of both motors is less than Gen 3, and I am not seeing how it will be compensated. Now it weighs little bit more, less HP and Torque from Motors, potentially make it even slower.

I saw somewhere in another thread stating even NiMH battery capacity is lower than Gen 3. But based on weight (which is only 10% less) and Toyota claim of denser battery, I am guessing capacity would remain ~ same.

But battery now supports more amps for charge, basically charge AMP rating has gone up (potentially delivery also, not confirmed anywhere, just guess). So during braking, it can absorb regen power more rapidly. If my guess is correct, it might be able to deliver more amps to traction motors also. This is only area I have some hope. Because of AMP limitation Gen 3 might never deliver full rated HP/torque, but with new Battery, motors might be able to leverage higher rated AMP delivery and delivery more or comparable power.

But again, total system power number give us the indication. It seems Toyota does not want to disclose that. My bet is, it is lower than Gen 3, and that is why they do not want to disclose. That is typical pattern I saw with Toyota. If they do not see merit(if not positive) in releasing the information, they simply hold on to it until product release. But this is ridiculous, 3 auto shows, and still does not want to disclose those figures. Some boneheads in Toyota thinks that would help them somehow.

 

Agreed why advertise something which will not be perceived as improvement? So if they didn't pointed it, it is as good or worse.

 

no doubt, when the new prius arrives, and people find out how underpowered it is, they will still buy it because toyota did such a good job of hiding it from the previously.

 

I don't think it is underpowered, IMHO it is too heavy. I think they couldn't meet the target because of size/cost constraints.

 

i don't notice any change in power when i'm carrying an extra 20 lbs in the car. a second person, yes, it's noticeable.

 

The rumored 2800lbs put it at 242lbs lighter than Gen3. If it really gained 20kg, we are looking at 300+ total

 

Ours does. This was a bit of revelation to me, I figured with the AC button light was off, AC was off. Typically this is the case, but the exception is with mode set to Heat/Defog. Scangauge tells me how much wattage the compressor is using, and it seems to be lower number, than if the AC button IS depressed, lit up.

 

i'm pretty sure someone translated the japanese specs to 10 lbs, i'll go with that over your wag rumors until we have facts and data.