Featured Toyota to Debut Three New Electrified Vehicles for U.S. Market

dbstoo · Feb 14, 2021

Trollbait said: ↑

The edit was over 30 minutes before you quoted. Regardless, the edit was just an expansion of the general point of the first paragraph.

The use of the large interconnection grids for parsing generation mix, and they become useless once considering time zones, the exchange of money, and pissing matches over territory.

Just replied there. The settlement with Chevron only involved NiMH batteries.
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Just replied there too, challenging the assertion since the agreement was sealed under court order. As far as I can tell, the full agreement as not been made public.

Dan

austingreen · Feb 22, 2021

Gokhan said: ↑

Toyota claims that a PHEV is more environmentally friendly and practical than a BEV and a BEV is a lot more expensive to own than a PHEV:

Toyota shared highlights of new internal research evaluating the environmental impact and cost of ownership between a PHEV and a BEV. For this research, Toyota created a tool that shows the trade-off between GHG Emissions and Total Cost of Ownership. The source code for this tool is publicly available at carghg.org for others to experiment with the various input parameters and see the movement of BEVs and PHEVs on the GHG and cost plot. The research found:

GHG of a currently available BEV model and PHEV model are roughly the same in on-road performance when factoring in pollutants created by electricity production for the average U.S. energy grid used to charge batteries.

Manufacturing is a component of GHG emissions. Using the “Greenhouse gases, Regulated Emissions, and Energy use in Technologies” (GREET) model, researchers found that the production of a PHEV emits less GHG since it uses a smaller, lighter weight battery.

The PHEV is much less expensive to buy and own, compared to the BEV. Without any incentives, the five-year Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) of a long-range BEV is significantly higher than the PHEV. If you include incentives available this year (2020), the TCO of a long-range BEV is much higher.

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We only have 2 toyota phevs to look at the prius prime produces 160 g/mi co2, and the rav4 prime produces 210 g/mi using average US grid mix compared to the prius without a plug at 205 g/mi co2. By comparison the teslas - 250 mile range model 3 standard range rwd produces 110 g/mi and the model Y long range awd produces 130 g/mi.

The greet model is extremely outdated when it comes to estimating greenhouse gas impact of battery packs as they estimated from short runs not the much more efficient production in large battery pack factories. The numbers are hard to come by but if you assume 100,000 miles on a long range 80.5 kwh tesla battery produced at the Nevada factory it adds about 30 g/mi even if the pack is not recycled or used as a second life grid back up. Even if you add this to the model Y long range it only produces as much co2 as the prius prime including manufacturing on the current US grid. Building a phev that is similar to a bev is going to to produce more ghg on the balance of the car. Still phevs are really good. As the grid gets cleaner longer range phevs and bevs are going to drop even more. Many of these plug in owners have already installed green energy including myself, and this makes it even better. Definitely if you use real 2020 figures a phev is not more environmentally friendly as you describe unless that long range bev is driven much lower than average. Still I would love toyota to produce more phevs.

My guess is if toyota built a rav4 bev again with the model Y's battery packs and motors it would have a lower TCO than the rav4 prime. It all depends on ownership assumptions.

wjtracy · Feb 22, 2021

Gokhan said: ↑

Toyota claims that a PHEV is more environmentally friendly and practical than a BEV and a BEV is a lot more expensive to own than a PHEV:

Toyota shared highlights of new internal research evaluating the environmental impact and cost of ownership between a PHEV and a BEV. For this research, Toyota created a tool that shows the trade-off between GHG Emissions and Total Cost of Ownership. The source code for this tool is publicly available at carghg.org for others to experiment with the various input parameters and see the movement of BEVs and PHEVs on the GHG and cost plot. The research found:

GHG of a currently available BEV model and PHEV model are roughly the same in on-road performance when factoring in pollutants created by electricity production for the average U.S. energy grid used to charge batteries.

Manufacturing is a component of GHG emissions. Using the “Greenhouse gases, Regulated Emissions, and Energy use in Technologies” (GREET) model, researchers found that the production of a PHEV emits less GHG since it uses a smaller, lighter weight battery.

The PHEV is much less expensive to buy and own, compared to the BEV. Without any incentives, the five-year Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) of a long-range BEV is significantly higher than the PHEV. If you include incentives available this year (2020), the TCO of a long-range BEV is much higher.

Click to expand...

Toyota is saying what is good for Toyota, but I do not think that is popular with US auto/policy makers such as GM. Not popular probably for the reason they do not want to have to compete with Toyota on PHEV/Hybrids.

Featured Toyota to Debut Three New Electrified Vehicles for U.S. Market

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Featured Toyota to Debut Three New Electrified Vehicles for U.S. Market

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