Toyota Suspends Sales of Eight Models - NOT Prius

This action affects ~4 million vehicles. You claim that the number is even greater. Indications at this time are that the problem affects a minute percentage of possible vehicles. Again, you claim the number is greater.

If I had an affected vehicle and did not previously experience any problems, I would of course be more aware, but would continue to use it.

 

Honestly this us-vs-them mentality makes both Toyota (Prius/whatever model) owners AND GM owners look juvenile. It's like you people don't realize how closely intertwined both GM and Toyota are (they share a huge number of parts suppliers).

I know that internets is srs business but holy crap.

EDIT: I am about to get into my possibly defective Toyota vehicle and drive to get some errands done this morning without freaking out about "unintended acceleration" This weekend I will get into a possibly defective GM vehicle and drive it at speed without freaking out about the wheels falling off or whatever you people can make up.

 

Jeesh, it's not like the vehicle suddenly explodes or rolls over 10 times - events you could do nothing about. Just drop it in neutral! If the driver doesn't know to do this, they probably shouldn't be driving.

Yes, this problem must be addressed but knowing to drop it in neutral, I would keep driving it if I had an affected vehicle. It would be different if it suddenly accelerated and there was no neutral or other option.

 

Decide for yourself: Seattle News - The Flip Side of the Perfect Prius - page 1

Also, take a look at this earlier thread: http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...9-toyota-suspends-sales-recalled-vehicle.html

 

I would bet the Prius will eventually be recalled too.

 

This should read, "Just drop it in neutral if the joystick thingie works," or "Just drop it in neutral according to the non-intuitive electronic shift-control rules!"

In every traditional car made since the beginning of the industry, the mechanical gear shift responds immediately when moved to a neutral position. Also, there is a noticeable click feeling as a detente is depressed in the shift process, and the shift knob stays where the driver puts it. The Prius operates very differently. In implementing a joystick drive-by-wire model Toyota deviated from years of automotive design patterns and the well-known paradigm of how gearshifts work. Traditional drivers simply do not understand the feel of the new shifter. Probably, in a panic situation, most Prius drivers don't either!

Putting a fast moving Prius into neutral requires specific knowledge. The shift motion to neutral *does not work* immediately or traditionally. The driver must hold the shifter in N for two solid seconds, which is an eternity at a fast speed. (I believe that's about 65 yards at 70 MPH.) Also, the driver puts the joystick to neutral and releases the lever, and it pops back to a rest state with no shift. So, not only does it take longer than a traditional car, but the driver needs to understand that they must hold the shfter there for that same period during a stressful driving situation. Traditional designs shift to N immediately and the shifter lever literally stays where it is put. Traditional, decades-tested designs provide feedback to the driver that include feelings of clicking and movement.

By the way, the ignition button works similarly, but it takes three full seconds. (That is if the drive time computer didn't crash to the point where it can't take user inputs.) The car turns on with a quick press, but the driver must hold the switch down for seconds to shut it off. Again, this is a severe deviation from traditional driver-to-car interaction paradigms developed over years.

This is a very basic human-to-machine interaction problem. I am sure that command-and-controls design contributed to the acceleration issue by confusing drivers. It was a very bad choice to force a change in the workflow between driver and car and expect no resulting control problem. It smacks of engineering hubris.

 

This is why after spending 22k+ and before hurtling 3000 pounds down the road at 70 MPH, one should read the manual and familiarize themselves with any vehicle they purchase. I know, nobody has time for such nonsense as reading a manual.

 

Yes but most panicking drivers aren't really thinking straight....

 

So does anyone know if the new recalls in China and Europe are related to the same North American accelerator pedal?

Frankly, I am a bit cynical to the idea that Toyota would throw away Billions of dollars because "less than a dozen accelerators have been stuck" as the North American company is quoted in their statement.

 

Which is why we should require a *lot* more training before someone is allowed to drive.

I'm not arguing the point about changing user interface paradigms; that can make for trouble. However, sometimes changes are for the better. Each requires careful evaluation of gain verses risk. Anyone want to go back to rotary dial phones?

Tom

 

toyota is throwing it(accelerators) against the wall in hopes that it sticks. they don't really know what the problem is.

 

Now, for the facts:

Toyota's rapid growth questioned in recall

Toyota suffered defects because they made the stupid mistake of outsourcing to a U.S. company. Man, talk about bad P.R. for stuff made in the U.S.A.

"HURRY ! buy GM" (before the facts? ... what kind of rational is that). Sorry, the news isn't as bad as you'd hoped.
.

 

I still believe that a modification in programing can help this situation, if the brakes are applied for X Seconds cut off or drastically slow fuel flow. Basic first panic instict when things are not going right are feet to the floor, sometime the go pedal is also pushed along with brake, but since so many of these vehicle have computer controling/monitoring all inputs a basic cut or reduce fuel flow when brake is pushed will help with this issue and people accidently driving through walls.

 

Hill, be careful I think you will find that the Toyota problem will be much greater than a supplier in Indiana. Leave it to you to throw American workers under the bus and worship your Japanese brethern.

 

malorn, you should be booted from PriusChat. Going by the language in all your posts, you don't seem like the type that would go to a VW blog site as well and chastise all of their members for not buying American. I just don't see it happening. Your motives are pretty transparent if you ask me.

Having said that, based on everything I've read online over the past several months, I don't believe it's exclusively a pedal issue and certainly not a floor mat issue. I have a '98 Corolla and have never had a braking issue. By the way, it does not have drive-by-wire, it's a manual throttle.

http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii-2010-prius-main-forum/74199-poll-prius-brakes-problem.html

Toyota Recall: Fails to Address Cause of Many Sudden Acceleration Cases, Expert Says - ABC News

Consumer Reports Cars Blog: Analysis shows over 40 percent of sudden-acceleration complaints involve Toyotas

 

Toyota Nears Repair for Accelerator - WSJ.com

Toyota Motor Corp. is close to developing a repair for the sticking gas pedal that caused the company to halt U.S. sales of eight models this week, according to people who have been briefed on the company's actions.

Toyota is seeking approval from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration for the fix, which could come in the next few days, said two people familiar with the matter. If the approval is received, production could begin next week with dealers receiving the new part within the next two weeks, they said.

 

I have singled out Toyota for a myriad of reasons, which I have explained at nauseum on here previously, none of which have to do with race if that is what you are inferring.

 

Even the experts have been unable to recreate the problem. It is still not known how much is mechanical, operator error, computer error. People do need to read manuals on cars these days, teens are driving without having any idea of how to change a tire cause we can call AAA! People are incredibly distracted, don't maintian their vehicles

Although the crash that caused the increased attention to this was horrific, it was a rare event considering the number of vehicles on the road. Toyaota has done an incredibly intense response to this situation. I recall there were a few deaths before Ford addressed the fire/ignition factor in the Exploders....I had many recalls on my Sport Trac.

Anytime you outsource any part of production you risk decreased quality control. I wonder if Japan would bail out Toyota the way we bailed out GM. What happened to natural selection.......

 

Don't bother Jason, he's been here and spewing this same crap forever. I don't know what caused his prejudice but he certainly devotes a lot of his life to spreading it here.

 

Do you really think the manufacturing base of the US has been mostly destroyed because of natural selection? No invovlement of foreign governments? No encouragement with US tax laws?

As for Japan and toyota do you think for a moment Japan would let Toyota go under?