Featured Toyota shareholders protest EV stance with votes to oust longtime leader from the board

I think the disappointing thing is the competitiveness of the Toyota EV offering.

Toyota's strength has always been in producing a long line of improving reliable vehicles. Is the company DNA up to the new world of a new feature every month demands?

 

is it?

prologue

 

LOL now Ford's Farley is quoted as saying hybrids are about to take off while EVs lag.

thedrive article

 

For a while now, I have been trying to grasp why U.S. Auto industry (FORD/GM) supports 100% EV's. I know from experience many years past that the US Autos have anti-oil industry sentiments, partially as an outcome of the Hardware Upgrade vs. Fuel Reformulation debates of the 1990's.

Basically I now think U.S. Auto's see 100% EV's as way to reduce headcount, whereas high headcount is a (debilitating for the US) characteristic of the auto industry (whereas as very low headcount per GDP is a characteristic of the oil industry). So while diversity of ICE,HEV, PHEV, BEV etc. ("to each his own" as per current state of the US market) is attractive to current auto consumers, it does not seem tenable for US manufacturing, if we want a US centric auto market. US autos do not really want to complete with Toyota on hybrids, I do not think.

Of course, I would personally appreciate course-correction to embrace hybrids, and I would think 100% EV's puts too much pressure on raw materials. US always tends to be all-in on one politically -correct winner, but diversity has its merits.

 

What do they mean by hybrid? Are PHEVs counted in those estimates?

What about the other end of the hybrid spectrum? Every Jeep and Ram with eTorque is a mild hybrid. Ford and others are selling mild hybrids in other markets where fuel prices are higher. It won't be possible to sell an ICE car without at least a mild hybrid system. Replacing the now common auto stop/start system with 48 volt mild hybrid systems will easily meet these predicitions.

Then the US is making CAFE and emission regulations stricter. With plug in growth limited by material and charger shortages, car makers will need to use hybrids more to meet the targets.
Proposed Rule: Multi-Pollutant Emissions Standards for Model Years 2027 and Later Light-Duty and Medium-Duty Vehicles | US EPA
Federal Government Seeks Sweeping New Fuel Economy CAFE Standards

 

Sounds like ford is ready to re enter the hybrid game, but with Farley , there’s a lot of bluster. We’ll see, he certainly hasn’t put a ton of effort into ev’s like hunday, and claims to be losing a fortune on every one.

farleys problem is that Tesla is eating his lunch on one side, and Toyota on the other.
Maybe just stick to gassers

 

If the hybrid or PHEV makes a significant reduction in drivetrain parts, it wins. Mock hybrids and PHEVs with hydromechanical transmissions are losers. That is why I now have a 2017 BMW i3-REx which I use for EV trips under 106 mi. Above that range, it is the 2019 Tesla Model 3.

Right now, the Tesla Model 3 is down for long deferred maintenance and enhancements. I don't have any long range travel plans. But if something comes up, the BMW i3-REx comes 'with highway privileges.'

Bob Wilson

 

From a manufacturers point of view, (at least ford) hybrids are pretty simple and could be cost effective if done right.

but these claims about ev sales slowing down just seem like excuses not to be aggressive in the process.

just because there are some high priced loaded ev’s on the lots?

this is where Tesla will continue to dominate, by driving down costs and passing it on to the consumer.
Maybe gm can compete if they are making a profit on their ev’s, IDK.

if model 2 comes to fruition, game over.
Legacy makers will last as long as governments will allow them to, and in the much longer run, even government won’t be needed to put them out of business

 

I didn't get that deep. I'm just entertained by the juxtaposition of Toyota leadership taking heat for not doing EVs as much as Ford (among others) while Ford management starts singing the praises of hybrids.

It sort of reassures me in a way- "it's okay, everyone is supposed to be confused and running in circles right now."

 

Maybe something to do with not being able to sell the EVs thay do make. Stories of 100+ day supply available of the Mustang and the Lightning pickup.

 

and for good reason, have you seen the prices?

 

Actually the Ford Lightning has recently experienced a price reduction;



It's just before the 1st cyber trucks started rolling off the assembly line.

Coincidence ?
.

 

I don't think there's any escaping the fact that the pent-up demand for the cybertruck is going to draw a lot of water through the market. But once that wave crests...

 

That's a much smaller wave to deal with compare to the Tsunami of Tesla Model Y being the #1 most popular car being sold in the world today, which knocked Toyota out of the #1 spot that they've occupied for decades. And also your point makes me think that if Toyota Stealerships had lots of people wanting to buy new Toyotas they'd be real quick to satisfy that demand because that's how it has always worked. But take away that demand and force delearships to by a small number of vehicles at a time, and is it any wonder they're kinda of acting like the Senate Minority Leader going full turtle on everyone at his press conference and being unable to reply to the question about running for reelection today. Looked like some kind of elderly medical emergency.

 

Ford doesn't have Toyota level saturation of hybrids in their line up, but the selection isn't lacking, and that widening is already planned. I think the recent talk has more to do with straight ICE cars having a harder time meeting new regulations.

Toyota taking heat has more to do with their stance towards plug ins than them boosting for hybrids. The market research showing hybrid growth is still showing EVs will too.

The Lightning may be high, but it was better than the ICE F150 a few months ago.
https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/new-vehicle-inventory-june-2023/

 

true - pickups are not the #1 selling vehicle - but;

Pickup trucks dominate America's 10 best-selling vehicles of 2020 (cnbc.com)
Pickups are a big enough market to not just ignore.
and;
they're often a manufacturer's bigger profit margin type of ride.
and;
(Electrically) cutting emissions of big land barges saves a ton more resources than improving a fleet of small cars that are already very efficient with fuel.

.

 

If you want to win at that game, why not work on the emissions for the sea-going barges? Get any one bunker fuel-powered ship to run on something cleaner and you've done the work of updating/replacing thousands of cars.

 

Agreed . . . . but then . . . i might be branded one that goes too far off topic. wait ... that's already been well established
toyota does make trucks. barges/container ships? not so sure

.

 

so we can respect gm for the hummer ev

 

the problem with legacy makers id that they thought they could copy teslas business model of starting with high end ev's.
but that ship has sailed. the prime movers are now inching downward of 30k after tax credits, and continuing to fall.
the current ev's stuck on lots will be fire saled or become bricks. who has the technology to reduce costs like tesla?