Toyota salesman claiming 2010 will get 1.8 L engine

at what speed? At 100 mph we run here in Europe, Prius is currently not an competitor to any kind of diesel engine.

In fact, my 306 hp V6 gets very similar mileage at those speeds, that Europeans often drive at.

 

you do realize that Toyota has 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, 1.6 and 1.8l engines that can fit the Prius, right? And all of them are running on Prius only atkinson cycle.

 

are you planning on buying a prius? member from 2005?
100mph is 160kpmh.....
normally European max speed is ~120kmph depending on country

ofcourse i maxout on 100kmph = 62.14mph

 

most countries in continental europe have 130kmh limits, and you can drive at least 150kmh before getting pulled over. My roads are around 160km/h without cops doing anything.

I had Prius before for 3 years, sold it few months ago... eager into getting into next one, or some other toyota/lexus hybrid as well...

 

New Avensis info was released, among other things, it will get 2 new 1.8l petrol engines - one will be 132hp dual vvti and another one 147hp engine - probably valvematic... sweet.

 

wy do you want a hybrid you only drive to fast

i geus you live in the eastern part of europe?
in wester europe you really don't go any faster then 120 average
only in france you have 130 on the toll-highway and of course germany but in that country the unlimited speed is already taken down to 130 or 120 max on a lot of the highways there.
it will be a matter of time when you don't drive 150 any longer with cops not doing anything
i visited usa this year and i love to cruise and cops all over the place...
almost none was speeding there i loved it

the civic IMA with a inferieur hybrid system gets almost the same mpg like the prius
with a 1.3 liter engine running at 2000rpm at 120kpmh... small engine low rpm .. high mpg

 

Hi spwolf,

You seemed to have missed the major point of my post. Toyota is a manufacturing company. And as such it has a policy of maximising volume on various expensive part numbers. If they can get the 1.8 liter engine block up to a billion (rather than 500,000) at the penalty of 5 mpg (highway) on the Prius, they will. Remember, they will also be making this car in the US. SO, that means that they want get to the point where the block can be cast in the US too. So, the US foundary would be making 1.5 liter or lower displacement blocks only for the Prius if they stayed with the 1.5 liter. Which is just not the Toyota way.

This is good and bad. The money saved helps make the hybrid system affordable. But, the best mileage is not achieved. Still, what they are delivering is damn good, too. If I was a Toyota competitor, this would be very scary for me. Because it shows they still have more cards to play when their volumes get higher, and FE competition gets stiffer.

In 30 years when the Prius has as much volume as the Corrola, Matrix and Prius combined, and the competition for FE is much higher, they might go to the custom 1.5 liter 3 cylinder engine (assuming they can get it similarly balanced to the 4 cylinder).

 

Engine factories can be small - they do not have to build million engines to be profitable. In fact, toyota has many "small" engine factories around the world. And Prius is an volume seller so factory that is supposed to build 200,000 engines per year would not actually be considered small but big and very efficient.

I dont think economies of scale had anything to do with choice of engine either, as a lot of Toyota R&D goes into smaller than 1.8l engines. Other than USA, in Europe and Japan, most cars are sold with engines with 1.8l and less... Majority of European Toyota sales are with 1.0l, 1.3 and 1.6 engines...

What I am saying is that Toyota didnt get forced with 1.8l engine setup - they thought it was better choice for Prius and once it is revealed, we will hear why.

 

Tideland - first info about new Valvetronic in new Avensis - 1.6 with 132hp (8hp more), 1.8 with 147hp (15hp) and 2.0 with 152 hp (5 hp more than D4 engine), all with 6 speed manuals, and with CVT's with "7 speeds" (1.8 and 2.0).

2.0 was made for economy in mind, it has 5 hp more than previous AZ direct injection engine (D4), and 10% more torque than 1.8l Valvetronic but economy is only between 1% and 6% worse than 1.8l.

I suspect these engines will go into many Toyota products by the end of 2010.

 

Does anyone know the performance of the 2010 Prius? Will it be comparable or even faster than a 2.4L Camry? Currently I'm driving a 2002 Camry and I'd like to change into a more economical 2010 prius but I wouldn't want to sacrifice performance (yea my driving habits lol bad driver).

 

1. Larger engine displacement does not automatically cause decreased gas mileage!
For example, a two liter engine only has to spin half as fast as a one liter engine to produce the same amount of power. So the increased displacement and friction due to the greater surface area is offset by reduced number of cycles and reduced friction due to the slower speed of rotation.

2. In some cases, increased engine displacement can cause increased mileage!
In an Atkinson cycle engine, the increased displacement can be used to increase the expansion ratio without increasing the compression ratio. This increases thermal efficiency, thereby increasing gas mileage.
Also, although a larger displacement engine does tend to consume more fuel at or near zero load, this will have negligible impact on cars such as hybrids which hardly ever run the engine at or near zero load.

 

so in that case a really light wieght 18 or 20 liter engine even maybe with a turbo for more power at lower rpm's will make sense.

 

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Steady state level driving at 100 kph requires about 13 kW. Even the current engine is too big for 13 kW. I realize that engines are sized for acceleration and hills, but an engine larger than 1.6Litre is unlikely to improve 100 kph FE. The only other mechanical point I am aware of is that the Prius drivetrain does increasingly poor at speeds over 100 kph. So a larger engine running at a lower rpm will be a trade-off at high speeds, say 120 kph+

I trust Toyota to come out with something interesting, even if it is not exactly what I would have requested: a 1.4Litre engine, 20% more battery, and a 30 kW motor/generator. But then I don't drive over 100 kph enough to matter, and I couldn't care less if I have to slow down on long hills in order to not tax the engine into an inefficient range. I just join the truck lane for a bit, or pick up some speed before hitting the incline.

 

I too believe to get better MPG, the electric motor and battery will need to get more powerful and the gas engine not so much.

But who knows, maybe the next generation of Atkinson cycle will retard so much that the power stroke will displace 1.8L but the compression stroke will displace just 1.0L. This will extract even more energy but let's wait and see.

It may not even be Atkinson cycle but rather a HCCI engine.

 

A 20 liter engine makes sense for a large truck, but a turbo for more power at lower rpms on an Atkinson cycle engine probably does not.
A 20 liter engine for a Prius does not make sense, because it is simply so extreme that it would require extreme technology to realize, would be extremely expensive to manufacture, and extremely difficult to fit under the hood(Although that didn't stop Honda from designing a nice little car with a 20 liter engine). An engine displacement of 1.8 or even 2.0 liters for a Prius, on the other hand, is well within the normal range of technology, price, and overall dimensions for cars, and would make sense when combined with an increased expansion ratio. And in the special case of Atkinson cycle engines, within normal parameters, increased displacement can be taken advantage of to increase mileage.

 

1.8 or 2.0

 

Thanks to the Atkinson cycle, the efficiency of the current Prius engine at 13 kW is only about two percent lower than at maximum efficiency. http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/HV/454.pdf

 

Mechanical loss at high speed isn't that much. I believe it is 3% loss and there is 30% efficiency gain from Atkinson cycle. Overall, HSD still come out ahead of a non-hybrid. Dual-stage PSD like in GS450h and LS600h would minimize the high speed mechanical loss.

The current Prius already has 30kW MG1.