Toyota recalls one million cars globally

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ Jun 1 2006, 03:13 PM) [snapback]264271[/snapback]</div>

I've got you down . . .right after me.

 

Where did Expedition John go? :huh:

 

true american vehicles built in mexico, that is

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Expedition @ Jun 1 2006, 10:58 PM) [snapback]264486[/snapback]</div>

Good for you! Mission accomplished.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cameron @ Jun 1 2006, 10:15 PM) [snapback]264457[/snapback]</div>

I believe he was scared away, and to be honest I can't blame him. After reading four pages of endless assault on some guy (albeit someone who had nothing stimulating to bring to the table) am not so sure that I should find myself visiting here too often. (Fine by you folks, I'm sure.)

I actually came across the site during my typical nightly dig of alternate vehicles and was pretty dismayed by the inaccuracies (and aforementioned verbal barrages) of this posting, so I was compelled to respond. Call it my vigilante nature.

I agree with portions of both sides of *several* arguments posted herein, but also find fault on either side.

Yes, the bygone era of 'Buy American Buy American' does not *strictly* apply in today's global market; and those who think in those black and white terms are simply ill-informed economically; specifically as it relates to the autmotive industry. However, to think that Toyotas/Hondas/Nissans/Etc. being *assembled* in the United States is actually a benefit to our country financially is also a bit naive. These jobs are the equivalent of 'throwing a bone' and are really clever marketing tactics. Toyota in particular has been smart enough to use the "red-blooded" mentality of selling their vehicles and, since the mid-90's has made a slow but steady push to convince U.S. consumers that their vehicles are "American". The reality is the 20k jobs (more? less? I'm not sure) that are created absolutely PALE in comparison to the billions of dollars that the owners and stockholders, in Japan, are re-investing in their own economy. (Jobs are great, easpecially when they're hard to find, so I'm sure the employees would dispute me on this one.) It's akin to 'Detriot' out-sourcing certain jobs to Mexico & Canada. It simply does not make the financial 'dent' that it would if GM or Fords' (Chrysler now a different story) absolute "take-home" dollars were also sent abroad. Why do you think that the Gov't. is always so quick to bail out an American car company when it's on the path to Bankruptcy? It would SERIOUSLY hurt the economy.

Personally, I say buy what makes you feel good, but when you do, call it what it is; let's not pretend anyone's helping our economy by sending thirty grand over-seas every seven years. (Or whenever you buy your new car.)

As far as the 'OIL' issue is concerned, that's also a topic within this thread that made me wince when I read it. Hybrids, Electrics, (and in my case) Veg. Oil systems are using less "imported oil", yes, but what you put in your tank is a microcosm of the universe that is global oil consumption. The amount of oil it took to PRODUCE your hybrid is the same amount of oil it takes to power an average (gasoline-powered) vehicle during it's life-cycle. (approximately 10-15 years.) And the REAL "oil consumers" aren't vehicles, they're HUMANS! From every piece of plastic (direct consumption) to everything you purchased at IKEA (indirect consumption through manufacturing) to your medication, food, clothing ALL requires oil on some level. As noble as the cause of reduced consumption is, please remember that unless you live on a self-sustaining farm with a bicycle as transportation, you're consuming about 4 times annually what "Expedwhat'shisname" puts in his gas tank. Sad fact, I'm afraid.

Don't get me wrong, I *try* to do my part, and it's more than obvious that you guys do yours as well, but I won't be found on my soapbox preaching veg. power (ok, once in awhile) over dino-fuel, hybrids, electrics, etc. because every one of these serves it's purpose in some way. And until we find something that's truly more efficient than oil, there's little hope of switching.

I've said my peace, you may begin the lashings now. If you don't mind, I'm still going to peruse your site for technical specifications and user experiences to continue my never-ending journey of alternate fuel enlightenment.

-D

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Expedition @ Jun 2 2006, 12:10 AM) [snapback]264490[/snapback]</div>

And requires, what? 90% of Middle Eastern imported oil? <_<

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Expedition @ Jun 2 2006, 08:57 AM) [snapback]264586[/snapback]</div>

Since most ethanol made in the US is derived from corn, what's the point? Anyway, how often do you run your Expedition on E85?
We understand that SUV drivers aren't known for their manners and that type of language is probably used alot on the Expedition forum, but we try to keep the discussion a bit more civil here.

 

I suspect that Troll Expedition does consider south america part of the US; besides, since we will be going after Belize and other nations that are "friends of terrorists" (read that as have oil) they will be soon. Right Troll?

Oh, and why do you think that the Bushies are finally pushing E85? Mainly because of people standing up, saying "We want alternatives to gas hogs" and "we have to do something about depleting oil" and "we have to do something about the destruction of the environment" and "we demand better fuel efficiency". By the way, if Ford is so fantastic and Toyota so abhorrent (look that one up troll), why are they leasing the hybrid technology from Toyota for their Hybrids???

 

Troll-Facts are facts. Of course, I could find "facts" supporting the idea that Ford was founded by an anti-semite who adored Hitler... wait. Oh yeah, it was. Umm, I'll try again. That Ford Expiditions are wonderful vehicles and good for the economy. Better. I stand by my statement. Ford tried and did not develop a viable hybrid system, when it released its first Hybrid, it has TOYOTA synergy system in it. They were caught off guard by the demand. Sorry, fact is fact. They are trying to play catch-up, but point stands. If Toyota is so abhorrent, why did your glorious ford do that?

Second, no one has poo-poohed E85. However, since you bring it up, check your facts. At least at this point it uses a considerable amount of dinosaur to produce E85. It is, I suspect, an economy of scale and the greater the demand, the easier it will be to produce. However, don't for a moment imagine Prius uses more fuel than E85 vehicle. Also reread my comment. No one has poo-poohed, I cheer for ANY initiatve to break oil addiction.

But then, why do I even post reply? You are stuck in your glorious position. No amount of point-counterpoint will jar your acumen.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Expedition @ Jun 2 2006, 08:57 AM) [snapback]264586[/snapback]</div>

Yes but when everyone switches to E85 or what ever YOU will still be wasting more than anyone in your ethanol guzzler.

This topic is getting funny and I just had to post.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kent1915 @ Jun 2 2006, 12:17 PM) [snapback]264670[/snapback]</div>

Actually, Expedition is right. Ford's system was a clean room implementation, and has a few differences from Toyota's system (The transmission unit is a much simpler and more compact design). When Ford realized their system was close enough to Toyota's to be sued, they swapped patents. The upshot is, Ford got some patents from Toyota, and Toyota got some patents from Ford (the new diesel engines Toyota uses overseas have Ford technology behind them).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kent1915 @ Jun 2 2006, 11:17 AM) [snapback]264670[/snapback]</div>

Don't you DARE go down that road, because while I was NOT trying to support Exped's train of thought, neither will I sit by and listen to people spewing facts when it's convenient. YES, Henry Ford also got a civilian medal from the Nazis because he was such an anti-semite. But if you're going to run this course, you BETTER discuss the other side of that coin. Mitsubishi was founded by the man who built the Zeros that bombed Pearl Harbor, and in our infinite compassion, only prosecuted a handful of Japanese war criminals (vs. the hundreds upon hundreds of Germans) and some of those WWII Japanese sadists still collect money from their parent company! Toyota (and Honda, and ...) were/are no better. Katsuaki Watanabe from Toyota had strong ties with Imperial Japan and was on the death machine bandwagon to create the 5 points (7? I don't remember) to take over the world! They were, as we recall ALLIES of Germany, if only to allow the German's to do their dirty work in Europe while they followed suit in the Phillippines and elsewhere with their own form of ethnic cleansing.

It's very very sad that you had to go in this direction. I suppose, "Buy a Ford, support the Nazi Regime" was your not-so-subliminal cheap shot? How about "Buy a Toyota, cause Pearl Harbor needed a face-lift anyway."


-D

 

One more: Ethanol; fine, but it seems to me Bush is pimping Hydrogen more than anything, which we KNOW is an oil-backed fuel source. It uses only 10% less oil to create enough (stable) hydrogen to equal the driving distance of a gallon of gas vs. acutally creating; you guessed it; a gallon of gas! How is that helping anything?

I work with some biodiesel folks, and using 'clean' vegetable oil (along with a slight amount of ethanol, and basically lye) we have a VERY clean burning fuel (I'll have specifics on the internet soon, but there's already plenty of data) in many wdie-ranging multi-use vehicles. It IS a viable alternative, but it's just that, an alernative, like E85. It's not the 'one-size'fits-all' solution. Hybrids will/do have their place, as will/do organic fuels, as will electric, as will (like it or not) fossil-based transport. I *believe* that the hope is to curb the dino-fuel to an absolute minimum, which changing the form of fuel for private vehicles will *help* to do. But that is FAR from making us oil-independent. (See my previous post, above.)

I think what it comes down to is thank GOD for passionate car people! We're the stuff that new ideas are made of, as long as we don't tear each other apart first. Loyalties being what they are, I understand that it's difficult to see anothers' point of view, but the thinking man can and WILL force himself to look past his own bias.

-D