Toyota Rav4 Electric Vehicle on eBay

Toyota announced that "Toyota is maximizing the use of RAV4 EVs" .
It is good for Darell and consumers.

Does anyone know how the EV1 is supported by GM?

Ken@Japan

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ken1784 @ Jul 6 2006, 04:52 PM) [snapback]282269[/snapback]</div>

It is good for Darell and consumers.
Yes, it is good for Darell and consumers. And it was NOT their policy just six short months ago. This policy is currently in place *completely* because of the tireless efforst of some very dedicated EV drivers. Before this new policy, Toyota was crushing every Rav that was returned from lease (even three-year leases... some with 10k or fewer miles!)

Yup... I sure do. The EV1 is 100% NOT supported even one little bit by GM. There are no more cars in customers' hands - so no support is needed.

 

I think what killed it was the cost/time to the consumer to charge these things. Yeah, some malls in SoCal have charging stations; but imagine having to install this at your home! It wasn't a plug into the household current....

Yes, the ELECTRIC company bought quite a few of these for their meter-readers, so I used to see them on a regular basis. (SCE)

Oh and Ken1784....GM killed the EV1. They were 100% leased and a few years ago they refused to either extend the leases or sell them to anyone. They did have their following!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rlongenbach @ Jul 6 2006, 06:28 PM) [snapback]282312[/snapback]</div>

Thanks for the vote. I'm not sure what you mean about the cost though. If I bought grid electricity for my Rav it would cost me the equivalent of 60c/gallon of gas. The time? Takes me about three seconds as opposed to 15 minutes to drive out of my way to a gas station, fill up, pay, and get on my way again. Sometimes it can take 30 minutes or more when there is a line. Three seconds to toss the paddle in my EV is about average for me. It fills while I sleep.

Even without any cars being sold, we have about 1200 free public charging stations in CA. And that number is growing every week as we install more.

No need to imagine it. I've done it - many times, actually. Some hire a contractor, but is is very easy to do yourself.

Err. Yes it was (is!). The charger draws the same current that an electric dryer would use. 220V and 30A.

Hundreds of them, yes. They did some great studies with them, and published many reports.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jul 6 2006, 11:02 PM) [snapback]282405[/snapback]</div>

I think when people talk about the time it takes to "fill" the car refers to when the batteries are depleted and you want to continue driving. It might fill while you sleep, but if you want to keep driving, its going to take a lot longer than 30 minutes to "fill" your car back up.

Fast charge would be a real boom to electric vehicles. Another thread (can't find it) that talked about the development of ultra-fast charge batteries was really interesting. Someone took the estimated energy a depleted battery might require, and the required current and time needed to get that energy. For quick charge, it sounds like a commercial venture, since most homes don't have greater than 220V service. But a commercial charging station (like one on the highway) could have higher current rates and I think that would be great, and make an EV practical for even one car families. At home, fast charge isn't as important, since trips are shorter and you spend longer periods at home. Sorry to be vague, can't remember the estimates and can't find the thread.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gschoen @ Jul 7 2006, 09:02 AM) [snapback]282541[/snapback]</div>

Yup. If I count all the time in one year that I've had to wait around while my EV fills and compare it to all the time I've waiting around for my gas car to fill... I've spent way more of my time filling the gas car. A bit unexpected, isn't it? At 15 minutes per fillup (average)... that time adds up in a hurry. Good thing I don't have to do it very often. The bad news is that I have no other choice by to drive to a gas station, and stand around while the car fills. In the case of the Prius, I typically have to hold the nozzle upside-down and dispense very slowly to keep the thing from clicking off too soon. In my experience, filling the EV significantly less time-consuming, and less complicated! Yes, there are times when I have to wait around for it - but those times are few and far between.

Not if we use fast-chargers that were market-ready 15 years ago - and are currently used extensively for ground support vehicles all across the country. Again we get back to discussing the relativel hobbled production EVs that we've had around for ten years... and what should and could have available to us today.

You only get a "boom" from gas vehicles. The boon of fast charging isn't something we have to wait around for. It is available today. NiMH batteries can already accept a charge about 10x faster than the proprietary chargers that came with the car allow.

You nailed it here. Slow charging at home is just dandy. You can do it any time the car is parked. When you travel you *may* want to pay for a fast charge to get you back on the road again. The typical driver would need to do that maybe a few times a year. Some would need to do it more.

Either way - EVs are not the perfect solution to all our of vehicle needs! For some people in many situations, they are superior to gasoline vehicles. For others they are not.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jul 8 2006, 08:14 PM) [snapback]283135[/snapback]</div>

:lol: Interesting technique. I'll have to try it!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jul 8 2006, 08:14 PM) [snapback]283135[/snapback]</div>

Oh no, you're right! What ever will Hollywood do without cars with full tanks of gasoline exploding in their action movies? EV's are just too boring!!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Jul 8 2006, 05:39 PM) [snapback]283142[/snapback]</div>

Seriously... it is the one thing I've found that consistently works. Looks a bit odd, but then people already used to that from me. I've only put gas into the Prius six times, and of those six times, five gave me problems, and I ended up filling with the nozzle upside down.

Hey! Maybe it was the stunt-man union that killed the EV! Another angle to conisider

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jul 8 2006, 05:14 PM) [snapback]283135[/snapback]</div>

Be fair Darell! The reason you almost never have to wait for your EV to fill is that you drive the gas car when you are going to make a longer trip. Most people could make do with an EV most of the time. But most people also have the occasional longer trip. I'd buy an EV-1 as my second car today if they still made them. But most people want one car to be able to do their short trips, their commuting, and their long trips.

I think a full-feature PHEV is the answer: 50 miles or so on battery power with full acceleration and freeway speed, and a gas engine for longer trips. And with full-power capability in EV mode, the gas engine could be even smaller and more efficient than the one in the Prius.

Regarding that RAV4EV there has not been a bid in several days, and at $40,200 the reserve price has not yet been met.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jul 9 2006, 08:27 AM) [snapback]283334[/snapback]</div>

I can't think of a way to be more fair, actually. I've never hidden the fact that I own two cars - and one of them uses gasoline. Most American families own at least two cars, it turns out, so it isn't like I'm off the chart. I've only presented my personal situation here. It contradicts what most non-EV drivers think is possible, so it could be educational.

And *most* people have access to a long-range vehicle if they need it. No, not everybody - we're talking about *most*. And in a world where gasoline did NOT rule... we'd have fast chargers as handy and as cheap as gasoline stations are today. What we're stuck with today is not what we're capable of!

Yup, and most people would like to earn 2x their salary as well. I do agree that one vehicle that can "do it all" would be ideal. Yet we still sell motorcycles, two-seater sports cars, trucks that only get 200 miles range on a tank.... My main push - as always - is simply to have EVs available to the people who can use them to improve our situation while still enjoying the experience. I'm living proof that an EV in a stable of two or more cars can be a *benefit* to the owner (as well as everybody who breathes, drinks water, pays taxes, etc). Often overlooked are the huge benefits of owning and using an EV. All we hear about is the benefits of owning and using a gasoline car... and none of the detractions? Most people don't enjoy driving to the gasoline station. Most people don't enjoy going to the shop for tuneups. Most people don't enjoy changing oil. Does that mean we should remove gasoline cars from the road because of all these detractions?

I do realize that we're on the same page here... but once you wind me up... I'll be done in a moment - hang on.

I too think that this would be an excellent step, though I don't believe it is the "answer." I just returned from a 350 mile weekend in the Rav4EV. I burned no gasoline and spent no more than 30 seconds of my time in fueling. If I had a 50 mile PHEV, I'd have gotten exceptional gas mileage... but still would have burned gasoline that that I didn't need to.

Again.... this is my personal experience - presented as fairly as I know how.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jul 10 2006, 06:21 AM) [snapback]283481[/snapback]</div>

I believe you need at least two times of charges during 350 mile drive by your RAV4EV.
How were the charging done in less than 30 seconds?

Ken@Japan

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ken1784 @ Jul 9 2006, 04:53 PM) [snapback]283550[/snapback]</div>

Hi Ken... read carefully now! While I charged about six separate times, the only time that *I* personally invested in the process was less than five seconds per plug-in. It turns out that I don't really care how much time the car sits and charges if it does not inconvenience me. I'm doing something else - eating, shopping, watching a movie, swimming or sleeping - those are the exact activities that I enjoyed while my car was charging on this trip. When you fuel a gas car, you drive to the station, stand there with it while it fills, pay, drive back onto your previous route. With an EV (and a charger at your destination), you toss the paddle in the charge port and walk away. It literally takes the same amount of time as pressing the SKS button on the door to lock the Prius.

My time invested in the fueling process is all that matters to me. And that's all that I counted.

 

If I may briefly get back on-topic... this vehicle just sold for $55,000.

Sucks that there is no demand for these things! Damn. What would a new one sell for today?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jul 10 2006, 09:00 AM) [snapback]283554[/snapback]</div>

Hi Darell, thank you for your comments,
Now, I understand what you say...
Your previous comments were a little tricky for me. Maybe, I was trolled...

Ken@Japan

 

ken -

I know (hope) you were being funny with the smile and all. I'm not trying to be obtuse here. I'm attempting to point out that it doesn't matter how long the car sits and charges - the ONLY thing that matters is how long a driver has to invest in the charging process. If I was not clear out that from the beginning, I do apologize. I'm not trying to play tricks with words. I'm trying to point out that EVs require a different way of thinking. With a gas car, you have one way of refueling - you drive out of your way to a gas station, and sit there while it happens, and then drive back onto your route. The time it takes to fuel is time out of your day - every time. If used as intended (meaning not long trips currently) then an EV uses less of YOUR time fueling. Yes, the car sits there longer, but the car is going to sit at your destination longer than it is driving anyway. You don't have to be there while it charges. Here are all the relevant comments from this thread. See if they make more sense now....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jul 6 2006, 09:02 PM) [snapback]282405[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jul 8 2006, 05:14 PM) [snapback]283135[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jul 9 2006, 02:21 PM) [snapback]283481[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jul 9 2006, 05:00 PM) [snapback]283554[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jul 9 2006, 02:21 PM) [snapback]283481[/snapback]</div>

And on this we are 100% in agreement. We need to have EV's available. One electric SUV (I hate SUV's! They are too big and clunky for me!) on ebay is not my idea of "available."

We are agreed: EV's should be available, and most 2- or 3-car families would benefit greatly if one of their cars was an EV.

But I'm a one-person household. I can't drive two cars at once. And when I drove to Seattle, that RAV4EV would not have done it for me, because I drove out in one 4-hour-plus stint, and returned the same way. But if they were still making the EV-1, using today's technology, I'd probably buy one even though I really should not own more than one car.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jul 10 2006, 09:03 PM) [snapback]284179[/snapback]</div>

Even though I'm a one-person household, I'm a two vehicle owner. Actually, this is the first time I've owned two vehicles, but have wanted to do this for so long. I got so tired of trying to come up with "compromise" vehicles that were either great for commuting but horrible for carting things around, or great for hauling things around but horrible for commuting, or SUV's that were nice and fun to drive, but often too "nice" inside to haul anything around in and not so great on gas mileage.

So, with 2 vehicles now "in the stable" and needing one for a 66 mile round trip commute, I'm ready to have one of them be an EV.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jul 10 2006, 06:03 PM) [snapback]284179[/snapback]</div>

And this is why we also need PHEVs - for the one-car situations like yours. One day maybe we'll actually have a choice as to how to power our cars.

Back in my single days, I still had two vehicles. A car and a motorcycle. There's nothing (but money and storage space) that prevents anybody from having two vehicles so they can choose the proper vehicle for the job. Hell, I have four pneumatic hammers to choose from for the same reason. I'm not going to do any finish carpentry with my framing nailer. And I'm sure not going to bang 1x8's together with a brad nailer!

 

Listen up EVERYBODY!!!! Isn't it a problem for you to pay over $3 for a gallon of gasoline???!!!!

For me IT IS and I have fixed that in a way that works for me now under the current circumstances.

Ok when I first came across Evs I REALLY wanted one bad BUT since there aren't any being produced right now and any that sell on ebay went to high I found I couldn't make that happen.

So I found a solution and went to my plan B that for the last 2 months has worked GREAT for me!

Alrighty, first I want to say that I haven't bought gas in over 2 months now EXCEPT a gallon for my lawn mower. 2 months ago I bought a Gem truck and I have to say it has been the VERY best purchase I have ever made (even better than my Prius).

So there IS a solution NOW for someone who doesn't want to pay for gasoline and I have PROVED it in the last 2 months. DO YOU KNOW HOW NICE IT IT NOT TO BUY GAS SO FAR FOR 2 MONTHS!!!!!!!

Some people might not like a Gem because of the speed restrictions on them. At first I to had a problem with the speed limatation but after several weeks of driving it have found something interesting about that. I have found when I'm driving on 35mph roads and I can only get to 25mph that 9 times out of 10 EVEN when people pass me up I catch up with them all at the light UNLESS they are speeding or just get lucky. I know some people have switched their motor to a bigger one to get their Gems to go faster. (I know one person who can drive theirs 42mph now) After seeing that 9 times out of 10 I can catch up to others I figured why modify mine IF I can't get anywhere further faster then in a regular car.

A base 2 seater Gem can be purchased BRAND NEW for JUST $7,000. They can be bought off ebay for $2,000-$3,500.

Yes I would love a "regular EV vehicle" BUT I have been pleasantly suprised that the Gem truck I bought 2 months ago has worked out SO well for me. I pay 2 pennies per mile in electricty. Mine has a heater/defroster and I'm getting hard doors so I can drive it most of the year.

I REFUSE TO BUY 1 MORE GALLON OF GAS UNLESS I HAVE TO.

I live on a main road of town SO everywhere I shop, bank etc is all close by. I have driven the Gem 4 different times in 1 day and NEVER once in 2 months been stuck not having enough battery power to get anywhere I needed to go. I plug in all night and then between trips I plug in to top the batteries back off. Topping off the batteries only takes about an hour to 2 hours at the most. So I have never once in 2 months been not able to drive my Gem.

WI doesn't require license plates so I have no plate cost.

So this is what my costs is for my Gem truck.
I paid $8,400 for my Gem truck. (I bought a 2005 and saved myself about $3,000 on the cost with the options I got included over buying a 2006)
Insurance (full coverage) I pay $214 a year
Then I pay 2 pennies per mile (From the electric companies time of use plan I could get it down to one penny per mile BUT I use my computers etc to much during the day)

I will get a 2.5% tax credit for buying it.

I bought new because it worked for me. I would reccomend someone buying used to save about half the cost)

So how can I NOT be happy with the type of EV I have. I'm just SHOCKED that other people aren't racing out to buy one. Of course I would LOVE a Rav4 EV BUT could NEVER EVER justify paying $55,000 for one.

I bought the truck version Gem so I could haul stuff for my business. I just can't get by without owning a truck.

Just yesterday I had Citgo call me and ask if I wanted to say 4 cents on my gas purchases. I say NOPE I don't NEED no more sticking gas.

The ONLY time in the last 2 months I have needed to drive my Prius is when I went to get my 6 month oil change and when I went to a board meeting to get and ordinance setup to drive my Gem in that area.

The ONLY thing that has sucked for me with buying a Gem is that I have to go to EACH city I want to drive in and get the to setup an ordinance to be able to drive there. (This is ONY for WI the other 46 States where they allow Gems do it through their states)

You guys should REALLY check into this type of vehicle. They at least would make a cheap 2nd vehicle if your like me and do most of your driving right around town.

I'm just THRILLED that I have found SOME type of solution so I can tell the oil companies to KISS MY nice person! I'm NOT going to buy one more drop of gas unless I have to travel!

I'm telling you buying a Gem car WAS a solution FOR NOW to take care of my immediate gas problem. You should check into Gems. They are SO fun to drive and have been enough to make me happy! (There SO quiet too and one of my favorite things I like about them)

You see who knows IF or when EV vehicles will ever be available. Maybe never. I decided I'm NOT going to wait around begging Toyota to give me a plug.

Can you see where I'm coming from? There is a solution today that can work for some that is cost effective!!! I'm just GLAD through my EV research I came across something for now!!

DO YOU NOW HOW NICE IT FEELS TO NOT BUY GAS FOR 2 MONTHS AND COUNTINGS. (I guess not since your all still buying it)

That's my 2 cents and I'm sticking to it! I can't get what Darell has the pleasure of having but I can get close enough to it to satisfy me for now! (And maybe for the future since I wouldn't want to pay $30,000+ for an EV unless it could go like 300 miles on a charge)

PS You can even get Gems now with heated seats and stuff. They are getting close to being just like a regular vehicle!

Here's a pick of my Gem truck:
http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/stuffaplu...re2.jpg&.src=ph

I paid $100 to have an electrician put in a 110v outlet on the outside of one of my warehouses. That way during the day I can just leave it outside in between trips and it takes me a couple seconds to throw the plug on it!

PS You say a Gem goes to slow for you? Solution: Then MODIFY it to go faster! (Of course your not suppose to do that )

I can ONLY come up with 1 sure fire reason a Gem wouldn't work for someone and that's that they have to many roads with speeds above 35mph.

Ok I came up with one more. Maybe if someone lived in a large apartment building and their landlord wouldn't be able to setup an outlet for them to plug in to.

So It wouldn't work for 100% of the people but at least 70%?