Toyota Prius c: 53 MPG city / 46 MPG Hwy; Under $19,000

when it comes to most advanced, S class full stop production pre-crash system failed spectaculary when filmed for german TV, and they tried to hide it as it couldnt recognize the barrier (first they crashed several cars)... so they added wooden plank on the "road" so driver would detect the stopping point and apply the brakes with his hands up showing how he doesnt drive .

but german tv had undercover cameras at the event and filmed it all and make huge deal about it.

 

There is a little problem with your advice though , the IMA from Honda doesn't work even as advertized. It's severly undersized hybrid platform even as assist, specifically the battery system, their system is plagued with "premature" warranty claims in all the generations (honda civic hybrid I,II, Insight I, II ..). And there is no easy remedy, either you regularly annoy your dealer (and vice versa) or purchase expensive aftermarket charger to provide at least monthly balancing charge on these batteries

On the other hand the much stronger Prius HSD system doesn't have that problem at all, see the taxi fleets after almost a decade going strong etc.

Hopefully the new downsized hybrid vehicles by Toyota like "c/Aqua" and Yaris hybrid with even smaller battery pack than original Prius line are offset with the much lower weight, so it shouldn't be a problem, fingers crossed.

 

Well, I mentioned the battery issues.

Until somebody drives one we don't know how responsive the Prius c will be. The c will actually have less power than the Insight, but wlll be a couple of hundred pounds lighter.

 

45 kW Prius c

10 kW Insight

With such a huge difference in traction-motor size, how do you figure c will have less power?
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My bad. I thought the numbers I saw from the Insight were for the engine only but it's combined. The c will have slightly more power (99 to 98) but much more torque available (the motor alone produces more torque than the entire Insight), although the Insight's peak torque is delivered at low rpm range, which is the key to the efficiency of the IMA design.

 

Insight has slightly better 0-60, but the prius c seems to be diagrammed to beat the insight. There is better balance between motor and engine, more refined eCVT versus CVT, better gas mileage. Can't tell handling without driving the beast, but the insight handled better than the prius liftback, but not much. 17" tires fixed part of that on my car. Toyota keeps saying that the prius c handles well, and already have a trd suspention upgrade. I can't see anyone choosing the insight over the prius c unless they are very loyal to honda. If the prius c handles well, it may kill cr-z sales as well. These are small numbers though, I'm sure toyota wants to take some fit, sonic, versa, etc sales, not just crush the insight again.

 

The Toyota Prius c, capable of achieving 53 mpg in the city and 46 mpg on the highway, for 50 mpg combined, will be made available in March 2012.

To reduce weight and scale, and to improve efficiency, every major component of the hybrid system was redesigned and high-strength steels were used in the chassis.

“We used about three different grades of steel in the chassis, some of which is ultra-high-strength,†David Lee, Toyota Product Communications Specialist told AEI Jan. 10 at NAIAS 2012. “We tried to increase the amount of that steel in the key areas to get more rigidity, plus you also save a few pounds. We also lost a lot of weight in the hybrid driveline. Our battery weighs about 68 pounds in the Prius c, where a regular Prius liftback battery weighs in at about 92 pounds."

In addition, the transmission assembly is 15% lighter than the regular Prius's. Engine mass is reduced with a 1.5-L instead of a 1.8.

Packaging was a key focus, as components were located in places where space could be maximized.

“Our battery in the c lives under the back seat; in Prius, it’s behind the back seat and intrudes into the cargo area,†Lee said. “We bring it down low, get it under the seat, it’s out of the way. The seat support frame is also the battery module protection area.â€

By locating the battery and fuel tank below the rear seat, the Prius c is able to offer 87.4 ft³ (2475 L) of passenger volume and 17.1 ft³ (484 L) of cargo volume.

Source

 

1. Assuming no dealer-to-dealer sales counted as sales, 7% of 7671 Volts is ~ 536 Prii traded for a Volt. I honestly do not think there is much here to brag about.

2. I had a long test drive of the Volt. The interior/passenger volume is identical to the Scion Tc, 90 cubic ft(compact class, not midsize).

Compare Side-by-Side

 

This is not bad in either case. Around here public transportation (used for portion of route) gives 90min one way, using car ~75min (60min driving, 15min walking).

Costs ~200$ for bus (subsidized by employer). Car? 234$/mo for parking plus gas and wear. Gas ~85$/mo

 

This Prius is Brought to you by The Letter....

So when The Prius c was introduced, it was revealed the "c" stands for City.

I guess what is disappointing in a way, and what we will never really know, is if you are starting from scratch and creating a smaller, lighter hybrid? How good could the MPG's really be?

I speculate, and it is 100% speculation, that Toyota is as odds with The Prius c. While they want to offer a "entry level" Hybrid, at the lowest Hybrid cost, they simultaneously can't really have this product blow their other offerings out of the water.

And by that? I mean what happens to regular Prius, and even Plug In Prius, if Prius c approaches 60+ mpg?

Is it fair to speculate that Toyota almost needs to keep what the Prius c "is" within a set of boundaries?

Highest City mileage of any regular Hybrid is a good advertising plug. Lower Highway mileage and comparable mixed MPG average? Ensures that The Prius c won't create a lot of envy among regular Prius owners.

If I was building a compact Hybrid to market? And I also was selling Prius, Plug In Prius and Prius v? It's exactly what I would do.

But perhaps unfairly, perhaps just dreaming...I wonder what could be done. I'm somewhat disappointed that what will be the smallest, most compact HSD Hybrid available, doesn't push the MPG boundaries further.

 

I think they want to make sure they take the Insight and Fit hybrid markets but push to take the Fit and Jazz too.

The Versa's more of a stretch since it's a bit cheaper. It's more poised to attack the Fiesta, Accent or Sonic where AT+A/C+C/C in a hatchback costs near or above $17,000.

 

hard to disagree with this one

 

problem is the cheapest, not the smallest.

i doubt Toyota is downplaying Prius c on the purpose, on the contrary I think they are banking of Prius c (and Yaris HSD) to revolutionize hybrid market in many countries.

 

The Aqua's a banker in Japan.

The c finally provides great headline numbers to a segment that has suffered in part because of having over-sized engines that make them seem little better than a compact.

But the Yaris hybrid will be very interesting to watch since that has a large potential market, but the toughest competition. To add to the fun, it's assembled in France, where diesels rule.

 

You are misunderstanding me. What did I say?...Toyota is at odds..while simultaneously creating and "entry level" hybrid..well entry level is usually "cheapest"...

I don't think Toyota is downplaying Prius c on purpose. No manufacturer would want to discount their own product. What I think is that as far as possibilities go? Perhaps Toyota is limited somewhat.

I was hoping the smallest hybrid? Would have slightly better MPG capabilities. And I have to wonder if it wouldn't be possible. To an extent Toyota cannot afford to create a small hybrid at $19,000 that would challenge the MPG and economy of $33,000 Plug in Prius.

It is speculation, but I do wonder what could be possible. In creating a Prius "Family"...Toyota is charged with creating a pecking order...

Toyota has done a good job of defining separation. Prius v, Prius, Plug in Prius...eventually Prius c...based on utility and useasge differences. But there is a genetic commonality throughout the family. The Plug in Prius ontop...but no family member significantly outshining any other family member. Does that create an enviroment that demands a common mediocrity instead of a significant swing for the fences mentality?

I don't really have the answer...but given that I think 53 City and 46 Highway is somewhat disappointing given the baseline of smaller and potentially lighter? I do have to at least harbor the questions.

 

Consider the bigger picture, the other markets. Prius is physically larger than some want or need.

So from the perspective of having something smaller available, you fulfill that need without MPG compromise and at a much lower price.

Lack of choice holds back sales. One size does not fit all. Phasing out traditional means offering more hybrid variety.
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Lighter weight + smaller size + worse aerodynamics + weaker powertrain = perfectly logical reasoning for why the MPG figures are what they are.

The Prius C's highway MPG rating is still higher than that of the Gen 2 Prius'.

Why does there need to be a single Prius model that absolutely outshines the others? Each model will stand out for different people for different reasons. That's how most car model lines work.

 

This happens all the time, manufacturers make a worse product to up sell. That is not likely what happened on the prius c. Toyota was did some compromises to keep the price down, as all makers do at this price level.

Let's take the battery power and capacity for example. They made the battery smaller than the gen III so it would fit under the seat. This also gives the car better balance, more cargo capacity, less weight, and perhaps a tiny performance penalty. With the downsized battery they could downsize mg2 without a penalty reducing cost more. Now they could have fit a lithium battery in there, but it would cost more and hurt marketing of nimh on the prius.

 

Here is the point I was getting at.



69% of the electricity in the US are from fossil fuel that requires some type of combustion to convert mechanical energy into electricity. That's what average Americans will be using to recharge their Volts. The combustion is very inefficient and that is being ignored for the Volt's electric miles because it doesn't combust under the hood.

It is not a misused case but a reality. This inequality between MPG and MPGe came from the location where the combustion took place.

You are doing better than 50 MPG Prius c and you are the exception. There will be another Volt owner in Hawaii charging it with the electricity generated from diesel fuel. If we take the average using the total US average mix, Volt is not cleaner nor more efficient than the 50 MPG Prius c. In fact, it is worse per the recent DOE study.

Agreed. The wider the boundaries get, the worse the Volt become. This is why 94 MPGe EPA figure is a partial view, dare I say a tunnel vision.

Show us the math and your electricity rate. You do realize your consumption is 41% lower than an average Volt driver.

Why stop at just miles per fuel cost? You should do True Cost to Own (TCO) which includes the price of the car, insurance, repair, etc...

Not necessarily. If everyone drives a hybrid, we won't need to import oil. You can't attribute the foreign fuel dollars caused by non-hybrid SUVs and Trucks toward the hybrids. You have mostly GM SUVs and Trucks to blame for that.

What about the health care costs caused by the local power plants? We should include it too.

You bought into the "feel good" marketing of the Volt and ignored it's tailpipe/evaporative emission and it's SUV weight plus the crippling interior design.

 

Here's your big problem the average american does not own a volt let alone charge it from the grid. The volt is more than $10K more than a prius c, and its unlikely that they compete. EPA is about efficiency from the source of the energy put in the car, that is wall or pump. We don't really need to know how efficient the solar energy was when it went into the plants, that were eaten by the animals, that changed over long periods of time, to be pumped out of the ground, and refined.

Did you know that the two volt drivers that post the most here use solar and wind to fuel their cars? Do you think they car how inefficient it is to take that little bit of wind or sun to put in? I doubt it. They are charging with renewable resources though, which you can do in gasoline cars. Its just much less efficient to get renewables in the car:mod: At least to me harping about the volt on a prius c thread is a little rediculous.