Toyota Prius 2nd Gen. - converted to LPG hybrid

well said. it might be throwing good money after bad.
Not too sure if worth a hassle and argument.

the installer... here in ireland if you are not a dealership then pretty much every garage is a back street operation.. it is like smaller version of uk tbh... much smaller.

I just want to say that if the past oil changes (the ones before the lpg installation) didn't flag any issues, then I do see some connection.

I will take a look at the brochure later. I imagine it only says "good" things about it.

update: today the installer repaired free of charge the intermittent clicking noise from the lpg system - bad negative connection.

They had a specialist in the shop (who is currently on holidays in Ireland (he is friend of the technician who installed the system), so he used his expertise and connected the obd then drove the car for 10+km's to setup the maps and lpg calibration. he has changed the settings to start the system from 800rpm as oppose to 0rpm as it was in the past. they still were talking about high pressure of 2.0 bars when engine cuts of. this pressure remains there. they said to leave it ( i suppose they do not know. one mentioned reducer being and issue. but it is not something to regulate easily).

new guy said that lpg is a fuel same as petrol and not causing oil consumption. he also tried to say about mileage. asked me how long i use the kit. old guy(tech) who installed the kit said to start using 10w40 oil.
both mentioned valves sealants as an issue (without troubleshooting).

I left as I had to go to work.

They didn't give me a receipt for yesterdays periodical service, nor they have completed the warranty book to stipulate today's repair.

 

who's up for legal action? - in few week's my warranty will expire.
who's against it?

If up for it, should I be going all way through on my own or should I engage the legal aid? - I'm confident enough to lodge the court papers myself.

I wonder whether asking toyota to look at the engine might help, or seeking independent engineer/professional who would write a report and findings.

 

2007blueprius, I don't want to drag you too much, sorry for taking your time, would you mind to tell me how yours prii behaved after all the years with lpg, when you sold it - were there many issues with the oil consumption? I understand if you don't want to talk about it on-line. Your friend who also used lpg kit, the same person who was forced to swap the engine for the one from the States, was the engine failure due to lpg and the temperatures affecting the cylinder's chamber?

 

the ''guest'' technician told me today that lpg kit uses obd bus immediately after 30 seconds of the start-up process (ignition ON), therefore I was told that any 3rd party monitoring (OBD reader, scanner) wouldn't be working as lpg kit would take priority to use so called ''premium functionality'' to adopt to driving conditions by reading values from obd and ''telling'' injectors what to throw into the combustion chamber (e.g. how much of lpg to be specific).

I still might be able to initiate OBD testing withing first 30 seconds of starting of the prius - then I could pottentially leave the OBD scanner/reader as ON, but I would ''lose'' this so called ''premium functionality'' and the lpg system would work in brute force mode. - assuming I am to use lpg system.

If I was to decide not to use the system (power the lpg kit OFF), then I imagine I am free to monitor engine temp through the mentioned sources.

 

I'm sorry if I'm missing something but I do see a connection. till 185k (kilometers) car was fine, since circa 200k (kilometers) the car isn't fine. unless I see less or more than I should really see.

 

I wonder if it's the oil too? The car has a high mileage so maybe a previous owner put in 10w40, you then bought the car and started using 5w30 and noticed a problem?

 

I know that old owner serviced prius in the authorized dealership, I also continued the use same dealership and asked the dealer to use 5w30, they had no problem with it, haven't had any problems with 5W30 prior to the installation of lpg. I continued to use 5W30 since the installation, last oil change it was also 5w30 (this time Shell as oppose to Castrol, oil purchased from UK supplier and performed change at the very same garage which installed the lpg (paid a fee for an oil change).
No, I haven't noticed that using 5W30 created any problems, Toyota also said that it's fine to use this grade of oil.

 

Oh it's the correct oil but often an old trick on an engine burning oil is to use thicker oil; especially if you're selling the car. Obviously not in this case then.

 

I politely requested for the installer to complete the guarantee book, to state yesterday's repair - my request was ignored accepted.
I also politely asked for a receipt for amount paid in respect of the maintenance service - my request was ignored accepted.

 

sorry I have been out of touch, just recently popped on to see all this, so sad.

I gave up on my install, my kit is still in the box, long story short I came across a used plugin kit just as I was about to install it, had all my homework done and all, so I figured I will use it on another car, but than this winter, propane quadrupled in price to the point it was about 4 times the cost of gasoline, its the states what can I tell you, it was never much about the savings considering our prices but to pay outrageously more for a curiosity?

200k km that is about 120k miles, I have a cavalier 2.2 pushrod US motor ( large tolerances ) with a little more than that, I bought new still doesn't burn, question is at this point if you run it on petrol only does it still burn? curious if its just lpg operation or motor damage, it certainly does not sound right

George

 

Yep, I exactly thought about the same test and I started to drive on petrol alone. I will monitor the oil consumption every 1000km's for the next while. - then I should be in a position to say more

 

you know I am no expert but I done my homework as there are no installers here and it was up to me, I remember a whil;e back when you first got it done we were going back and forth about that clicking, told you it was not right, the other poster mentioned your consumption was too much, you may have been running rich, if memory serves me about 20% more than petrol should be about right, they may not have mapped it right, fuel consumption is always a good gage as to how well an engine burns.

 

re-order elm327 from here Latest Version V2 1 Super Mini ELM327 Bluetooth OBD2 | eBay - since not using LPG (kit switched off), I can connect this obd kit to my smartphone and through app I will be able to monitor coolant's temperature.

1000km's later, driving on petrol, checked the oil dipstick level, about 4-5mm's down, topped up 210ml's of oil.
Should I stay on 5W or should I change it to 10W to see how the engine behaves on 10W?

I have another questions, would an oil analysis tell me more about the problem? - I know that I do top-up's of the oil, but there are residues present. This is what I am interested about. I want to know what metals are present in this oil. This would tell me more about what parts of the engine got affected.

US-based owners, could you tell me how much does the oil analysis cost in US? - I don't have problem to send oil sample to US if needs be.

I someone from EU knows about it I am also interested where in Europe can I do such analysis and how much does it cost?

 

snip (please delete duplicated post)

 

usually a local mechanical engineering university should be up for the task, I used to do that in colege, as for the oil choices, there has been some debate I got into when I got this car, us spec aparently acording to user manual, 5w30 which is the oil of choice arround here for most vehicles, change at 5000 miles, UK spec, mind you same car 0W20 change at 10000 miles, on mine the fill cap says ow20, so I got the mobil fuel economy 0W20 and a cheap filter, at 5000 miles it was barely yellow could not notice any loss at all, figured screw it well check again at 7500, just hit 7500 its a little brownish still transparent a little loss somewhere about 1/8 to a 1/4 below the full mark.

on my old car 5w30 bas black after 3000 miles, may have lost 1/2 liter, this one I'll change at 10000, no sense doing it any sooner. next change is due at 60 000 miles, 100 000 km this should give you a refrence as to how it is supposed to run, granted that is als half your mileage, maybe someone with higher mileage can give you a comparisson.

I still have a hard time getting over how far modern engines can go without a rebuild, I used to think 100 000 miles is a lot, nowadays people with 200k expect theyr cars to run as new and not burn oil, and some do, some of your issues are mileage related but it looks to me that the LPG system accelerated it, and honestly if set up properly with the flash lube this shouldnt have happen, at least in theory, my guess is that some wear has developed and at this point is irelevant what weight oil you will use, hopefully a set of rings would rejuvinate it, provided cilinders are not scratched yet etc, and usually they are fairly cheap, you'd need a headgasket while at it, I would change valve sals too, last I had a machine shop redo a head it was $70 for labour, could not tell you what parts cost but I asume for about $400 you could acomplish that if you do the work yourself, might be something to consider before the pistons start sloping and scratch the cylinders. but again don't throu good money after bad either.

I have had a lot of luck with this stuff, on an Nissan engine that buned and leaked, maybe a liter at 1500 miles, used it with every oil change, after about 3 changes, the oil loss was acceptable and I started using it every other till I got rid of it, I have been adding it to other cars that did not have issues in small proportions just to keep them that way, your local parts store may cary it 4 Cylinder Engine Restorer & Lubricant (11 oz.) - RST00011


there are lots of snake oils out there, most dont do nothing I can only speak for my experiences, worth a shot sor a few bucks

one other thing I have noticed with older engines, they have a preffered oil level, full is not always best, I confirmed this on a lot of engines some truck engines with over a milion miles too, you can try to keep them full till you turn blue in the face, but for the most part they will only burn to about 3/4 on the dipstick and than they stabilise there, if you top it off it will buen it down to 3/4 almoast imediatelly but it will remain there if left alone.

a cheap experiment on your next oil change regardless of the type you choose, see if you can get a can of that stuff and fill the rest to the brim, monitor it but dont add unless you get down to 1/4 dipstick, even at low it wont hurt it, if you start seeing improvement keep using the stuff, and don't fill it unless you have to, if it works within 3 oil changes you should find its sweet spot hopefully somewhere between half and 3/4 where oil consumption is minimal/acceptable, at this mileage some is normal, so the 5mm in your 1000 km likely half is due to the LPG the other half is normal

George

 

Thank you, I will keep a close eye on it. I still need a car as I have at least an hour commute to work in each direction.I am skeptical about engines rebuild, maybe salvaged engine swap - I lean towards this direction.
Regardless what it's gonna be, I will keep it and monitoring it until it stops. Then I would have to do the engine swap asap before HV battery starts to drain, so I assume I would have only a few days to perform the swap.
Are engines in US easily accessible? Here in Ireland it's very expensive to get one.

Anyway it's time to do an oil change, is it recommended to stay with 5W or should I go a bit higher?
I am also skeptical about oil additives. But if I have to use one, I would. Note sure it this one is available in Ireland.

 

You have much more than "a few days" as the HV battery self discharge rate is very slow. If you get the SOC in the green before starting your swap, you have a few months to get the job done.

JeffD

 

thank you for a positove information, it is usefull to know. thanks

 

I could not tell you about the cost of a used motor, your guess is as good as mine, I would do an internet search, people tend to regard cars as disposables around here so there should be plenty, there was a place in Indiana that specializing in Prii they are on this forum, look up the limo they built, they would be my first stop.

for a comparison, my local yard pull your own is $100 for a 4 cyl, doubt I'll ever see a prius there ever, mostly domestics.

as for that additive if your local store has it go for it, it did good for me any others I could not say, I tried a few before cant remember which obviously no good.

one other thing since you are due for a change not sure if something like this Google
is available in Ireland, supposedly is recommended after 75000 miles, on my other cars I have been using it since 50k, it is easier to maintain the seals of rather than rejuvenate them, and it doesn't cost any extra,

these high mileage oils are more so for the rubber parts, the Engine Restorer additive is more so for the metal parts, supposedly it builds up a metallic residue on the cylinder walls, reducing the gaps. there are many that claim as such and most are snake oil, I used to try them on hopeless cars, there is this one and a coolant additive I swear by the later sealed up a headgasket on a 3406 cat with a million miles 3 years ago I was told it needs an inframe oil was a milky foam, 200 000 miles later I still have that truck.

now you are not leaking much are you? most is being burned? no oil patches in the driveway?

if this stuff is not available in Ireland, and you want to try it let me know I'll send you a sample and its pretty cheap here, shipping may cost more than the oil, I'd send you the oil too thou a gallon by weight might be retarded to ship, and sounds like you need it in a hurry,

but anyway 5W should be fine thicker oil wont solve anything, you are either burning it at the ring or exhaust valve seals, with the latter being most likely considering the LPG, that being said the high mileage oil will help more than the additive, and not familiar with this motor but valve seals may be a trick to replace without pulling the head, not sure. the parts are cheap just a matter what you have to do to replace them

 

hello again,

looking at the bottom and briefly around the engine, I do not see any leaks. The driveway or parking spot at work remains dry and no oil droppings detected there, it is burning oil.

there many different SEA's and Grades / types of these Valvoline products, then again each type has own specifics and designed for different engines.
How do I know which bottle/ type to choose, and again which grade to choose in this scenario?

Thank you for your kind offer to ship from US, I think it would be great, unless I find it in UK/Ireland. - but let's decide which type and which grade should I go for first.

I'm not too sure if there are differences between US and EU spec's.

USA options:
Higher Mileage Oil | Browse Higher Mileage Motor Oil at Valvoline
https://valvoline.com/pdf/maxlife.pdf
https://valvoline.com/pdf/maxlife_full_synthetic.pdf
https://valvoline.com/pdf/nextgen_maxlife.pdf

EUROPEAN options:
Maxlife - Valvoline

Maxlife - Valvoline

Which one should I go for in this situation? Below are available in Europe products:
===================================================
1)
SAE 5W-40 API SN/CF ACEA A3/B4-04

MaxLife Synthetic 5W-40 - Maxlife - Valvoline
MaxLife Synthetic 5W-40 - Maxlife - Valvoline
Applications: For petrol and diesel engines of passenger cars, delivery vans, light passenger buses, campers, utility trucks, etc. Developed for use in late-model high-kilometer vehicles. For cars with long-drain intervals. Suitable for Direct Injected Diesel engines (Volkswagen DID test). Maybe this one is NO
===================================================

===================================================
2)
SAE 5W-30 API SL/CF ACEA A1/B1-10 ACEA A5/B5-10

MaxLife FE 5W-30 - Maxlife - Valvoline
MaxLife FE 5W-30 - Maxlife - Valvoline
Applications: Recommended for all applications where an SAE 5W-30 engine oil of ACEA A1/B1 or API SL/CF are specified, Meets Ford M2C913-A,B,C specification. For passenger cars and vans with petrol, diesel, and LPG engines.
===================================================

===================================================
3)
SAE 10W-40 API SM/CF ACEA A3/B4-04

MaxLife 10W-40 - Maxlife - Valvoline

MaxLife 10W-40 - Maxlife - Valvoline
Applications: For passenger cars and vans with gasoline, diesel
and LPG engines with or without turbochargers.
===================================================

===================================================
4)
SAE 15W-40 API : SM/CF

MaxLife 15W-40 - Maxlife - Valvoline

MaxLife 15W-40 - Maxlife - Valvoline

Applications: For passenger cars and vans with gasoline, diesel SAE 15W-40
and LPG engines with or without turbochargers. For engines leaking or having oil consumption
issues.
==============================================

Having almost decided that I will use Valvoline product, I still have an idea to take used oil sample for an oil analysis.