Featured Toyota Likes EV Incentives

So you want achieving CO2 reduction to be a low income social program? We can (and should) provide programs like food stamps (SNAP), Medicaid, etc so that they are targeted to the most needy, etc. But, low income people don't buy new cars, generally.

See: • U.S. consumer spending on vehicles by income | Statista

We've done the proof-of-concept and started ramping EV sales. But we still need 10x or more in market share.

Mike

 

often, a tax incentive that's reducing a tax obligation - is an equal incentive for the manufacturers' sales network to jack up the price.

 

If they would have a reduce tax but hold price tactic to keep gas prices in certain markets in the country above a floor using taxes they could potentially drive more revenue and semi stabilize pricing

Given most oil execs are partying at the end of the world with no intent to increase supply we might have one of two scenarios, gas stays expensive, or two the bottom falls out and the market collapses, when oil barrons try to manipulate it usually fails spectacularly

Make it a true on the spot rebate with vehicle price limits and consumer income limits , solved

 

Apparently I need to define low income. The average new price for a car has been climbing, but how many lower middle class families are going to pay over $40k for a plug in when the an ICE car of equal capability is >$10k less.

Lower price limits than what have been proposed would encourage companies to release more affordable models, instead of the high end, high margin models that they should have released years ago.

The latest proposal, that didn't pass, included a tax credit for used plug in sales. For the credits in that proposal, it was going to be possible to sign it over to the dealer for a like amount reduction in the price at time of sale.

PS: Maybe I need to clear cookies, but the link requires a subscription on my end.

 

Most lower middle class families appear to be buying used cars. That is not an incentive for car companies to cater to them on new cars. GM's bolt definitely fits that lower priced vehicle but it sells poorly compared to better equiped models. Social engineering at the same time as encouraging a tech change to bring down prices leads to a lot of political shenanagans.

Why? That doesn't get a single new plug-in on the road. It doesn't lower the cost of the tech. Dealers will just mark them up to equal the price.

There are many extremely wealthy individuals that have manipulated things to appear to have low incomes. Having an income test won't really solve any real problems.

 

Maybe. But look at it this way. If you give a person an tax incentive of $7500 to buy a car that cost $75K people think you are giving money to the rich. But the government is getting 10x the amount pushed to a (theoretically) new tech company to expand its technology and build more factories and provide jobs in new tech.
If, instead, the person just bought a $67.5K ICE car from an existing car company what would we get? More factories to make dead end cars and 15-20 years of buying gas and polluting the air. And the marginal gas sold all those years ships in from foreign countries, may doing "bad" things while the replacement electricity is domestic.
A huge win for gifting $7500 to a high income tax payer, which he/she turned around and gave to a new tech company. But the key point is that the other $67.5K also went from old/dirty tech to the new tech.

Mike

 

Maybe accurate in 2010, but in 2022 Tesla seems to do fine selling high end cars without rebates

it’s the everyday people that ignore EVs so a lopsided tax credit structure, even on cars under $25k for people who don’t make much adds more into the system and likely would spur new EV demand into underserved segments of our population

Having a lopsided tax credit means companies can’t Jack up prices much on lower cost cars because the slightly wealthier buyers who still sometimes buy basic cars will have to pay full price and the target buyers have distinct limits as well

Nowdays the rich guys buy whatever they want which increasingly are “luxury” EVs, we don’t need to stimulate those sales as they already are doing about as well as they can in the price range.

We are at the point that experimenting with different forms of credit is likely prudent to spur mass market offerings.

Also well worth understanding insurance and registration, getting my older Volt off the insurance and a newer stick shift instead has saved me $1400 of insurance + registration costs. Same company, same limits, same plan

I have long viewed private insurance as criminal and my recent experiences reinforce that mindset that it should be illegal.

 

Ford also had a dealer that added $60K to an f150, my local toyota dealer wants $5K to sell me a rav4 prime.

GM and Tesla seem to be able to sell without incentives. How many more cars will these incentives add. 1%? I don't even think that for the next few years as plug-in capacity to manufacture catches up with demand. The difference in fuel consumption between a tesla and a bmw or lexus or mercedes sport sedan or sport suv is a lot higher than the difference between an bolt and a similar econobox.

 

maybe the gov should just continue with their plan to build out charging infrastructure and improve the grid

 

Nailed it! I wouldn't call myself extremely wealthy but I am in no way poor. However, I legally take advantage of the tax code to show that I am below the poverty line. No one needs to help pay for my Prius and yet people did.

I'm not a CPA tax expert or an economist. I don't know what is the best way to spur innovation and tech adoption. I just know that I purchased my PiP in part due to the tax credit back in 2012 and I'd buy another one today (if any existed on a lot without crazy markup) even without the tax credit.

Maybe when fuel prices stabilize? Tesla just raised their prices again yesterday. What is that? Like the 5th time in the last 365 days? That's why Tesla's name isn't on that letter. Besides, ask anyone why they are not buying a plug in and I bet you number 1 would be range anxiety not cost or tax rebate. Which can be cured by more charging stations. Infrastructure FTW!

 

You likely aren’t the folks the government need concern themselves with.

Also, albeit rarely used the government is aware of everyones gross income, said metric can ping certain existing programs if you have too many write offs you can end up paying an alternate minimum tax .

Said program could be altered to make it less attractive to take certain credits if your gross is too high.

 

i was thinking a tax on gas hogs to ffuel expanded charging infrastructure

 

those who follow that school of thought forget how quick most of the automotive industry hard core fights against such notions. Gotta keep the sale of high profit land barge sales humming - right?
Isn't that why legislators started adding onto registration taxes for those driving electric cars? So they wouldn't have to add gas taxes to heaviest vehicles?
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an uphill battle, no question. but if joe can ask the oil industry to lower gas prices, he can certainly ask for this

 

National average ~ $5/gallon. Doesn't seem like they're listening. Same with OPEC. Didn't he call them up and beg for more to no avail?
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nope and yup, recession is not inevitable

 

0615_ExxonMobil-statement-regarding-President-Biden-Letter-to-Oil-Industry

joe doesn't seem to understand that 'thems that gots the gold makes the rules'

 

Called CARB fines, Tesla has made a lot selling CARB credits to the dummies.

Bob Wilson

 

Could be worse ... it could be the oily industry was being run by the gub'ment. That'd pretty much be the straw breaking the camel's back - like much of everything else they touch.
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Folks- What's the latest on Toyota Plug-in sales re: fed tax credit phase out?
Do we have til June or Sept to keep the full amount?