Toyota/Lexus hybrid unit sales history (USA)

I think the articles in the NYT have really put a crimp in hybrid suv sales. The only place that a negative review could be run as far as toyota's target market for esp the hihi would be on NPR.

My point is the vehicles are not hitting the market in the sweet spot. Doc you are an exception, you bought in a very altruistic way and I have no problem with that. How many folks on PC would still have purchased their prius if they thought their mileage was going to be about 38-40? some would of course, because it is a net gain in mileage, but many would not when all the costs were figured in.

 

I bought my Prius 2 days ago and drove it from Phoenix to Albuquerque. My first tank average was 46.6 mpg and 200 miles into my second tank I am at 49.5 mpg. Well above your estimate of 38-40 mpg. I just can't wait to learn how to drive it for even better FE.

 

My point was theoretical with the 38-40. How would you feel if you had paid a premium and you averaged 38 mpg?

 

I loaded up a lexus rx440h and it came up to $53000. How many do you think will get sold like that?

 

First of all, you cannot claim "lemon" for gas mileage because there are far too many variables involved. If that was the case I could get every car taken back under the lemon laws.
My original point is that for most drivers the mpg of the Toyota/lexus suv's is a huge disappointment. The prius has created a very high standard for the rest of the hybrids to follow. In my opinion the sales figures reflect toyota missing the mark on the suv hybrids. Maybe in 6 months you will be able to say i told you so, time will tell.

 

They're behind on both vehicles, using Toyota's numbers.

They knew when they were launching them how many they could produce for CY 2005, and using that they set sales numbers for CY 2005. They didn't hit them.

 

The toyota dealers i know are all telling me that they are not selling and the factory is trying to "encourage" more inventory. Maybe it will change, but it will not be easy for Toyota after almost a year after intros.

 

The interesting part is why... and it'll be some time until the whole story comes out, but I think you can make some pretty educated guesses.

The HiHy and RX400 seem to have a lot in common with the Accord Hybrid. They've got a hefty premium over the base model, and they don't really offer any compelling advantages. Yes, they're cleaner and get marginally better milage while delivering more power. But is that worth the premium? Given that all 3 have discounts and incentives on them, the answer would seem to be "NO".

I'm sure Toyota is really paying attention to the pricing for the Camry hybrid. I don't think they can afford to whiff and miss again.

 

A miss on the camry hybrid would have profound effects on the whole hybrid segment.

 

I agree, completely. My question is that 50k+ is not a huge segment to begin with and the portion of that segment to buy an SUV for altruistic reasons is very small. Again I may be wrong, but so far the trend says otherwise.

 

I know I'm coming late to this thread but those number don't look bad considering HSD is a new technology to most people, and that gas is back down to $1.99/gal in my area, and the figures for this year are still much higher than last year.

As for averaging 38MPG in the Prius, yes I've gotten that for the better part of a tank on occasion. But that was during the worst driving conditions. Like I told others before I even bought the Prius, there's something to be said for a vehicle that gets 38MPG under the worst conditions.

 

This comment looks like I heard one from GM's management when Japanese hybrids are introduced a few years ago.

What is going on now...
- CR selected top 10 categories are all Japanese brands.
- Toyota, Honda and Nissan sales in Feb are increasing and the US brands are... you know.
- Dana's bankruptcy
Will see answers in a few years.

Ken@Japan

 

I have to jump in here and add one more thing regarding the RX and the Highlander.

It would seem that Toyota missed their targets for both the RX and the Highlander hybrids, but that says less about the hybrid not gaining enough traction than SUVs in general being down overall because of high gas prices due to natural disasters and economic reasons.

I've done this analysis before, and I'm not going to do it again, but for nearly all of the months that the hybrid versions of the Highlander and the RX were selling in 2005, the hybrid trims of both vehicles averaged to about 1/4 of total sales of the vehicles.

That means that 1 out of every 4 Highlanders or RXs that rolled off the lot were hybrid versions. This remained consistent even on the down months.

So why then did the hybrid number slip? Because overall, SUV sales of every kind were DOWN following Katrina and Rita, and headed into the winter.

Ford had the same problem selling their Escape Hybrids... sales of SUVs of EVERY kind were down, and the hybrids were not an exception.

You can't really expect Prius like growth around the RX and the Highlander because these vehicles are essentially high trims of existing vehicles. it's unlikely that you'd be looking to buy an RX400h if you weren't already interested in buying the RX to begin with. Bearing that in mind, 1/4 of all sales being hybrids shows that there is a market for this kind of higher priced trim of those vehicles.

I have to dispute what malorn implied that the Camry will fail in the same way. The Camry is in a completely different segment than the RX or the Highlander. Even as SUV sales went down, sales of midsize and smaller cars went up... so the Camry should be ok.

Keep it all in perspective, people.

 

I agree. I've had 28 fillups of my Prius since I bought it, and only 2 tanks dipped below 40 MPG. Those were extreme circumstances, as well... such as driving around hilly terrain for 5 minute trips for 2 weeks.

Since then, I've been averaging well above malorn's "theoretical real mileage." Even in the dead of the winter i've been able to average mid 40s. Come summer i should get well into the 60s.

 

Sorry, but Ford has had *no* problem selling their Escape Hybrids. I'm sure some people remember their famous whine (and passed them some cheese to go with it) that they couldn't get enough parts to make enough vehicles to satisfy demand. They had only planned on selling 25K units last year, and for whatever reason, they needed to make more, and price probably has everything to do with it (IE, much cheaper than the HiHy and HX400).

Similarly Honda has Accord Hybrids sitting on the lots and can't shift them. And, technology aside, a 255HP V6 that gets 38mpg on the highway is pretty nice. But nobody's biting, and price has everything to do with it.

If the Camry comes on the market costing 28K out of the gate, it'll sell strongly for a few months to the people who have already decided they want the vehicle. After that, it'll slide, and you'll see incentives and rebates just like the HiHy, AH, and HX400.

IMO, the Camry Hybrid must come out for less than 25K if it's going to have a good shot at mass market success.

And can anyone tell me why Prius production is being slowed down to help ramp up numbers of Camry Hybrids available for launch instead of HiHy and HX400 production? I'm curious as to why Toyota went in that direction.

 

For the Ford, I was referring specifically with this:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/11/total_us_hybrid.html

Their sales of the Escape dipped back in November.