Featured Toyota Falls In Brand Loyalty Rankings After Customers Defect To Tesla

Self charging ...

 

Well, they do have a wide selection of hybrid models. Even the Tundra has an option to compete against the electrified Ram 1500 now.

 

For worldwide EV adoption to be significant, battery recycling will likely become necessary. Whether that increases or decreases the total costs, I don't know. It may be harder to get the raw materials back out of the batteries, or it may be easier with enough production. Aluminum is cheaper to recycle than to mine, for an example.

I often feel that if I get an EV it should be a standard range Tesla. Why? Because they use a non-flamable chemistry called LiFePO4. These batteries also use less toxic and controversial materials than typical Li-ion batteries (i.e. no cobalt) and also have better charging rates and longevity. The downside is they have less capacity, hence why they're used in the standard range Teslas.

 

That may be, but the Bolt is dead. I tried to get one, but now I will never get one.

What I wonder is if Toyota could be pulling out of North America altogether or are they just keeping their foot in the door for some sort of next gen lineup of vehicles that they think will overtake the USA?

Toyota only get's some 3% profits from the wholesale value of their vehicles here in the USA (compared to much more in Europe and elsewhere). Their holding back in the US is obviously intentional. The Big Three of North America have the exact opposite situation; huge overstock. But Toyota could sell more vehicles in the US and Canada, but seem to refuse to do so.

 

Toyota is putting billions into a new factory in NC as I type. I hardly see them abandoning the US.

And there are multiple battery recycling companies willing to take your old battery now and either use if to build a large fixed battery backup or process the batteries into minerals that can then be used again. As an example, look at Redwood Materials.

 

The accepted shorthand lithium iron phosphate batteries is now LFP. The Model 3 SR likely has switched back to the previous Li-ion chemistry in order to qualify for the tax credits; the LFP was coming from China.

Those bringing up battery fires likely don't give a thought to the fire potential of the fluids and plastics in their gas cars. A 12 volt short is enough to reduce any car to ash. Nor do they consider the battery most have in their pocket.

Reusing and recycling of EV batteries will happen. It is already being developed and considered in battery design. At the very lease, the lithium can go on to be used in in the traditional heavy users of of it, like glass and ceramics. The immediate issue is simple that there isn't enough old batteries around to support such an industry on a large scale.

The Bolt is coming back. GM reconsidered after the outcry. It will get a refresh with an updated Ultium battery.

 

Sounds like someone gave up too easy. Besides the numerous slightly used ones, GM has already mentioned that there will be a new version on the Ultium platform.
EDIT
Oops ..... it looks like @Trollbait beat me to the punch by a few seconds

 

Ya, well, my hands are kind of long.

LFP's (LiFePO4's) are still more desireable than Li-ion for several reasons. Maybe some day a used standard range Tesla with LFP will be my next vehicle, or LFP will be broght to the States. Non-flammable is still better than well protected flammable. No cobalt is still better than low cobalt. Better longevity and charging speeds are better than less longevity and lower charging speeds. Whether all that is not worth the hit in range is up to each individual.

We have no idea what the new Bolt will cost or when it will come back. I imagine it will be over $30,000, even with incentives.

Ya, but $15,000 is my budget. A $26,500 base Chevy Bolt with $995 destination charge is $27,497. Now take away the federal tax credit of $7,500 and it's $19,995. Now take away my state's incentive of $5,000 and a new Bolt could be $14,995.

But are there any base LT1 Chevy Bolts for sale pretty much anywhere? NO!

Do I qualify for the full federal tax credit? Not even half!

Is the federal tax credit worked into the price of any Bolt lease deals as of the moment? NO!

So unless I'm willing (let alone able) to pay $35,000 or more, I'm not getting a Bolt.

As far as used cars go I'm getting more and more of a sour taste for used cars. Used cars are way over priced, probably will be for years to come, and many are coming with HUGE problems not worth it.

If I suddenly needed a car I would go one of two routes: either get the cheapest new car available (Nissan Versa) or an extremely cheap beater that I know I can fix up and drive. I'm not spending $15,000 on a used vehicle that will either cost me $400 per month for insurance or likely blow a $10,000 transmission or battery or engine or what-have-you in a few months just because.

 

LFP does have many benefits. If the range of an EV using it works for the end user.

GM is still saying $30k for the base Equinox EV. While a price increase can happen for the returning Bolt, I'd still expect the MSRP to be under $30k.

 

I hope so. My guess is the Equinox will actually be $40,000 and the Bolt $30,000. When is another question. The Bolt could be 5 years out, or even more.

In the end, 2023 isn't a good time to buy a car if you're on a budget. Who knows when things will get back to normal. There are a lot of cars I like, but if they aren't available or I can't afford them, then maybe it's time for me to start thinking of how to get around without a vehicle. Or wrap my head around paying more than 35% of my income on owning a car.

 

I don't drive I-5 nearly as often as you. But ~6 times in the last year or two. And I've never seen even one Tesla parked anywhere except at a charging station. (Firebaugh, Harris Ranch and Kettleman City North and Kettleman City South) I've seen other cars on the side of the road, but so few I didn't think to catalog them by make and model.

I did drive this past summer to Nevada, Idaho and Montana (GNP) and saw no Teslas on the side of a road, but several in Glacier NP driving.

Mike

 

no used ones around?

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Yes, there are used ones. But if I was trying to get a new one for $15,000, I'm not spending $20,000 on a used one, that's for sure.

I think with EV's there's a good chance that used EV's could be a good choice, as far as reliability goes. But there's a chance they're all ticking time bombs needing a $20,000 battery replacement as soon as the 8 year warranty expires.

But how does that compare to a 5-year-old ICEV that blows a transmission and costs $9,000 to repair? Only time will tell what's more reliable, economical, etc.

In general, I'm more skeptical of used cars than ever before. They're way more expensive and there seem to be a lot more lemons than before. Add to that that the cost to repair them seems to have drastically increased.

 

i know you can't afford more than $15,000., but how were you planning a $15,000. bolt? i thought you needed to qualify for all tx credits to get that low

 

Funny you mentioned "$15,000":


Bought as backup for when I am working on my Tesla Model 3, the BMW has already crossed 59,000 miles. BTW, the original purchase price, swap the "5" and "1", ~$51,000.

Today, I drove over 116 mi, all electric: dental appointment; Home Depot; dogs to nature trail; Hartselle for late lunch, and; home. Free charging added 25 mi so there was no need to run the range extender. The measured 27 kWh battery cost $3.24 to charge at home ... where I took a nap.

Bob Wilson

 

15K is a good deal on the BMW. But the skinny tires and RWD only made it worthless in snow when I lived in Colorado. Even now in Kansas there is a ton of ice........s I ruled it out.

 

I was trying to find that loophole: the one that the dealer applies the tax credit towards a lease deal, with the intent of purchasing the car after the lease.

Again, I'm pretty skeptical anymore of used cars. For $15,000 it better have less than 50k miles or I'm not intersted.

 

RWD generally isn't as good as FWD for the snow and I would preffer FWD over RWD, although I wouldn't say it's a deal breaker. There are also advantages to RWD over FWD in the snow, and when FWD is better, it's not like way better.

I would contest that skinny tires are better on snow and ice than wide tires. Take any summer or all season tire and compare them to a dedicated winter tire and you will allways find the tread width to be skinnier on a winter tire even though we're comparing tires of the same width.

 

Between claims of no used cars, skeptical of used cars, rear wheel drive isn't as good, new prices too high, I think I got it figured out;


.

 

Ya, I'm probably just too pessimistic right now. But when one of your best frends goes in debt for nearly $20,000 on a 2019 car (Ford Escape) with less than 100,000 miles and the transmission unexpectedly blows 3 months later (they never even had the chance to take it out of town, they only commuted in a 35mph max town to and from work that's less than 3 miles away) and it's no longer under warranty but the repair ends up costing $9,000, I'm pretty bummed. And they're not the only ones I've known struggling in the current used car market.

Before the pandemic I was able to pay $15,000 for a five-year-old Toyota Avalon hybrid with only 50,000 miles on it and a clean CarFax report. Nowadays $15,000 will get me a used car, but not a 50,000 mile Toyota hybrid.

Also, for the record, I said that RWD wasn't a dealbreaker. It's just not ideal. My first couple of cars were RWD, 1951 Plymouth Cranbrook and 1972 VW Super Beetle, and there was even more snow here in the mountains back then. RWD has the advantage of 1. being better for climbing up steep grades in the snow 1. usually causes the rear wheels to lose traction, which if you keep under control you can drift and turn a corner sharper than if it were the front wheels since your steering wheels can still have traction.

At least you Bob Wilson offer a solution instead of like everyone else saying I just need to pay whatever it takes to get a car. You know, if my Avalon were to get totalled or stolen or something I might just go for a BMW i3. It might be a bit tight for a family of 4, but it's better to have a car than no car. And the PHEV aspect of it makes a lot of sense for someone like me. But if I got one and it suddenly needed a $9,000 repair, we'd be out of a car for sure.