Featured Toyota Falls In Brand Loyalty Rankings After Customers Defect To Tesla

That doesn't sound bad at all. I was figuring it was a lot worse. But still, if I drove a Nissan Leaf for a year going on up to 700 mile trips relying mainly on level 1 and 2 charging for those long trips then a Bolt would still be way better than that.

70 more miles on a nearly 1,000 mile trip isn't worth some $20,000 more IMO. It's a trade off I'd be very willing to make.

 

What is $20k more than what?
Bolt vs Model 3?
Leaf vs Model 3?
Used, new, other?

I don’t believe the difference is that big.

However, if the only reason is the faster DC charging and not the improved safety, performance, technology, efficiency, part availability, than yes, it probably isn’t worth any price differential.

 

Many of us don’t need a long distance ev, and can comfortably charge on L2 in our garages

 

Yes, Model 3 vs Bolt

Or perhaps Model Y vs Bolt EUV

 

Model 3 starts at $40.2k, Bolt at $26.5k. Not a magnitude of difference, but still, not close to $20k.
Model Y is closer to $20k more expensive, IF you can still find a Bolt without a dealer markup.

 

I only have a 2019 Tesla Model 3 Std Rng Plus and used the measured battery capacity after 111,000 miles. Yet after more than four years, the newly manufactured Model 3s have improved significantly. Still, I'm old enough to understand others have different requirements and I'm not in the market for an EV.

In my case, I wanted an EV that supported everything I'd been doing with our three previous Prius and no worse than our 2014 BMW i3-REx. The BMW was CCS-1 which helped me understand the importance of the charging network. The BMW range extender saved us from the CCS-1 problems.

All things age and eventually, my EV will reach a point where it is unmaintainable. Come 2029, I may replace it with the latest technology. Only I'll have a decade of EV experience which means I'll be better able to choose an EV meets my future requirements.

Bob Wilson

ps. I'm 73 years old which means I'll be 78-79 years when or if I replace my Tesla. Dad lived to mid 80s and Mom was 93. So if this isn't my last car, the next one likely will be.

 

Service centers are like Superchargers, just cause they meet your needs where you are doesn't mean they do in the rest of the market.

It adds an hour to such a trip, but a 1000 mile trip likely means stopping in the middle.

$15k is huge for most people. You can find a reliable used car for long trips to go with the Bolt for that amount.

I can buy a Lincoln MKZ and Focus EV from a local used car chain for $26k

 

I know there are people who can brush off $15,000 like it were nothing. But personally that's the most I've ever spent on a car in my whole life. And so far it essentially has been our only car and looks like it will contiue to be so for several more years. $40k for a car is completely out of the question for us.

 

Cars I've bought:

• $24,000 (2019) - new 2019 Model 3 Std Rng Plus, trade-in of the Prius Prime below
• $28,000 (2016) - new 2017 Prius Prime, no trade-in
  
• $29,000 (2015) - end-of-lease, 2014 BMW i3-REx, no trade-in
• $24,000 (2010) - new 2010 Prius, no trade-in, sold and money used to buy BMW i3-REx
• $19,000 (2005) - used 2003 Prius, no trade-in, 230,000 miles until unrepairable

Bob Wilson

 

My family is slowly drifting away from being an all Toyota family.

Son: Prius to Prius Prime (totaled) to Model Y 3 days ago. Use commute 30 miles each way. What was the MY impetus? Fun/different. Had rented one for a weekend to sample. Have solar.

DIL: Sienna (scrapped, age) to Prius v (scrapped, head gasket) to Ford Escape plug in. Couldn't find a Toyota plug in. Use local.

Me: Porsche Boxster and CRV to Prius v to Rav4 hybrid. Use local and hauling.

Wife: Accord to Avalon to Avalon hybrid. Use local and long distance.

 

Here's my car hisitory in order of purchase:

• $800 (2003) - used 1984 Toyota Corolla, someone else wrecked it and I got $50 for it.
• $1,200 (2004) - used 1985 Toyota Camry Alltrack, transmission died and I sold it for $300.
• (2005-2006) - Went back to not owning a car for a year.
• $500 (2006) - used 1985 Toyota Pickup, sold it for $500.
• $250 (2007) - used 1993 Mazda 323. I only fixed the alignment, the head, the radiator, the shocks and the fuel pump relay. Sold it for $1,000.
• $600 (2011) - used 1985 VW Golf NA diesel. I fixed the alignment, the shocks, the reverse lock plate, the CV axles, the door handles, and a couple of fuel lines. A family member is using it but still in my name. I really miss this car.
• $3,000 (2014) - used 1972 VW Super Beetle as second car. I rebuilt the engine and brakes and fuel system. Sold it for $5,000 when we got the Avalon. I really miss this car.
• $9,000 (2017) - used 2013 Nissan Leaf. Sold it for $7,000 a year later when we got the Avalon.
• $15,000 (2018) - used 2013 Toyota Avalon hybrid. Current car
• $300 (2021) - used 2006 Toyota Prius I haven't been able to fix. Was supposed to be our second car.

 

I agree completely. I was responding to your statement, which made it sound as if all service centers were seeing back-ups.

 

And as Tesla sells more, they need more parts depots and more EV trained technicians. Where do those come from? Even legacy ICE dealers are struggling to find technicians. Now add the additional space, tools, and training to the people shortage and what is predictable?

How many simultaneous service bays are in your state and how many at a legacy brand's? Granted there is no need for oil changes (those functions are separate at my local dealer, the no skills needed stuff is in a completely separate building).

 

i'm all for thread drift, but i don't even know where we are at here.

toyota loyalty?

car affordability?

tesla service centers?

i'll chime in: let's not forget that a $40,000. tesla is $33,000. for many people. with a trade in, substantially less.

how are comparable ev's priced?

 

All good questions.
Additional questions that would help us see the future:
At what rate do Tesla’s need service?
What percentage of service calls can be handled by mobile service?
How many service centers are currently planned?

I have no doubt Tesla is continuing to build more service centers (in states where allowed).
I don’t believe Tesla is having trouble finding new technicians, but have not delved into that question.
I wonder what the starting rate for a Tesla tech is vs a GM or Toyota tech is? That may give us something to base a guess on.

I am certainly willing to entertain the idea that Tesla may have service bottlenecks in the future. I just believe they are a foregone conclusion, nor that they will happen everywhere.

 

Also, what about comparable Toyotas?

Is the Tesla taking away from Crown ($40k) buyers?
Or is it taking away form Prius Prime ($33k) buyers?
What about GR Corolla ($36k) buyers?
Or GR86 ($28k) buyers?
Maybe all of those and Camry buyers as well.

I have a hard time believing they're taking away from Corolla ($22k) buyers or Sequoia ($60k) buyers.

 

likely prius most, it's the gateway drug. some other models no doubt, but not in nearly the quantity. just makes sense to me

 

These numbers are from a year ago, but lawsuits over Tesla service have been filed in March. So I'm guessing not a massive improvement since this article.

"The number of cars Tesla produced grew 68 percent in the first quarter of this year, compared to the same quarter last year, but the number of store and service locations grew by only 20 percent. Meanwhile, Tesla’s mobile service fleet — this is made up of Tesla mechanics that travel to a location of the customer’s choosing to complete repairs — grew by 35 percent. During the company’s annual stockholders meeting earlier this month, some Tesla investors questioned when the company would increase its current service capacity, which they say can’t support the number of Teslas on the road.
...
Among car owners who do need service, however, Tesla drivers tend to visit service centers at nearly the same rate as the owners of premium gas-powered vehicles, such as Lexus or Audi, according to data the consumer research firm J.D. Power shared with Recode."
Tesla, Elon Musk, and the future of electric vehicle repair - Vox

 

• Weber University
• AC/DC
• Elimination of dealer middleman
• About 100 times fewer moving parts
• No legacy drivetrain skills needed

Bob Wilson

 

That doesn't always translate to better reliability and fewer repairs. Consumer reports puts the Model 3 reliability at a 3 out of 5 whereas the Corolla hybrid gets a 5 out of 5.

Yet they need specialized EV skills. I can find several schools around here that teach "legacy drivetrain skills" but don't know of a single one that teaches EV skills.

This is why when I took my Nissan Leaf to a Nissan dealer they still couldn't work on it. They didn't have any EV technicians. And not just that day: they didn't have any employed at all, period.