Toyota Announces Voluntary Recall on 2010 MY Prius

After listening to podcast three ( you can pay me later for the plug Danny), I learned what was happening mechanically. It was very helpful in understanding what all this fuss is about.

If my car only feels like it is slowing at a different rate, then it only becomes a safety issue if I freak out.. right?

 

Octavia,

According to Bob Wilson's data it's not just that your car FEELS like it's not braking, it isn't braking. Granted, the brakes kick right in if you continue to press, but there's almost a 1 second lapse in the brakes working as they should...that is most defintely a safety issue and to call it otherwise is just silly imho. Even Toyota calls it a SAFETY issue in their recall notice in line one. Please notice that it doesn't say "customer experience recall" in the line below from the officially released statement:

"Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc, today announced it will conduct a voluntary safety recall on approximately 133,000 2010 Model Year Prius vehicles ..."

I hate to belabor this point but I do so for two reasons:

1. It COULD be an issue for some people in the wrong place at the wrong time and with the car in the unusually rare conditions that create this loss of braking...and someone could get hurt. So I would encourage everyone to get the fix.

2. For a very long time now it seems there's a concerted effort on the part of many here who are "veterans" or "experts" or have a vested/financial interest in Toyota (read: dealers, website owners, hybrid specialists, etc.) to downplay the condition and blame it on "new drivers" to the Prius. Those new drivers, and I am among that list, were painted as "inferior drivers" who hadn't adjusted to the "characteristics" of the car. And, it's pretty clear to me with Toyota's official statement, that they are all wrong. They owe us all an apology. I most certainly would man-up and offer one were I on the other end. I've offered an apology to another Priuschat member that I wrongly called "dishonest"- I believe in justice and doing the right thing for the right reasons. It's fine to want to see Toyota triumph in the end...and I hope and believe they will...but it's WRONG to spread misinformation and accuse newcomers to the Prius as being inferior and bad drivers who aren't deserved of or qualified enough to be driving this wonderful car- simply for selfish reasons.

There, someone had to say it.

 

I'm not an expert in the brake pause but from what I can tell of the braking system, pressing harder will force the brakes to hold RIGHT THEN AND THERE! Just drive the traffic and if there is any sensation of 'sliding,' push the brakes even harder.

The one brake pause I've captured lasted about 5 meters without me reacting like I normally would. I don't find this brake pause easy to reproduce. But now that I've experienced it once, I have no concern about handling it.

I look forward to getting the brake update, this is not something I'm going to hold off. We are headed into our traditional wet season, the Spring, and rain slick streets apparently are part of the combination needed in Huntsville. But we're sitting at 8,900 miles so I'll probably combine it with the next oil change at the dealer. I'll probably bring two dozen Krispy Kreams for the staff when I go.

Bob Wilson

 

Bob,

For most cars it's NOT easy to reproduce. I've only had it happen twice at the same location, when I've parked my car at that same location hundreds of times since purchasing the car- so don't expect to be able to reproduce it at will in any car. However, other cars do seem to be more effected by it. Also, I think the conditions have to be exactly right- a combination of slower speeds, even brake pressure, slight turning of the steering wheel and the sudden introduction of uneven pavement for it to happen in my car.

I would encourage you, the next time you're trying to gather data, to find a big parking lot with some potholes in it, and not just run over the pot holes straight on, but try to be in a turning/braking operation while hitting the potholes.

Thank you again for your data collecting.

 

Just to be clear, I am a new driver to Prius. I've owned my car since September of last year.

I don't think it's fair to blast the long timers here because they met the new complaints with skepticism. They have been hearing complaints about the Prius for a long long time. People come here to bitch when they have trouble with their car. Hybrid systems are a relatively new technology and people do go through an adjustment period getting used to how the car handles. I'd call it an honest mistake on the part of the "veterans" and "experts".

As for Toyota, they DID apologize. Publicly. On a commercial that they paid for and made in a matter of days. The recall post that came from the Prius team was posted at 10:30 at night. From the tone of it, I'd gather that they have been working day and night on this issue and are glad to be showing up with some solutions.

I'd say that shows they care.

ps. For those of you paying attention; I used there and their correctly just for you.

 

VOLUNTARY? What the hell does that mean? Voluntary for who: The drivers or Toyota? This is a very weird way to announce something they are calling a "safety recall." And, really, to say it's painful to discuss these things openly and honestly.

The B.S. meter is still pegged over here. Methinks they are still in CYA mode above all else.

I will get the service provided in this recall (and I will verify firmware versions before and after to make sure they do it). However, they still need to do a recall on their basic approach to the entire situation and quit speaking in Orwellian tongues.

 

Also, I note they are attributing the cause to Anti-Lock Braking software. Most people here would agree the problem happens at a transition from regenerative braking to hydraulic braking. Most people do not report it happening during panic stops when the click-click-click of ABS kicks in. Why are they calling it an ABS problem? Is Toyota admitting that the issue was of a bigger scope than simply a hybrid-drive transition issue? Or, are they trying to deflect from calling this a regenerative control system issue?

If the press release was written more plainly, the product manager didn't admit that he can't speak "in the open," and I could trust Toyota, I guess I'd believe them more.

 

I think it is voluntary because even though it is a safety issue, the risk is low compared to other risk. Safety comes in different grades. We seem to be all hung up on words and definitions maybe because we are upset.

Everything has a cost involved. Our country cannot afford to pull all Toyotas off the road until there is a fix. Especially since people are not dying everyday. So maybe they did something wrong but it does not mean we want them to go bankrupt. Believe me, it will hurt the U.S. a lot more than some braking problem if Toyota goes belly up - as some people in this forum seem to want. A lot of our fellow countrymen will be out of work and their collective pain will outweigh any braking issue that we sometimes feel.

Our country believes in rehabilitation. Someone does wrong, they pay for their offense (like a traffic ticket), they are readmitted into society. Calling for a punishment that is out of proportion is not what this country is about.

 

:bored: a la la la you bore me to death.

I am glad to see we are being updated on the progress by the Prius team. I haven't experienced the problem. However, I am interested in hearing from those who get the update early. I plan on waiting until I need my car serviced.

IMO - it is better for the resale value if you get the update so eventually I will be going in.

 

Voluntary means safety performance is not affected (press harder and it will stop)... Just like Ford decided to voluntary annouce service campaign for Fusion Hybrid for what seems like similar but not the same issue, instead of recall, even if people who experience the issue thought they lost brakes completly, until they restarted the car (and not for less than a second like in Prius).

 

words mean things

I can see Bighouse is still eagerly chasing the "it must be dangerous because..." meme.

It's voluntary recall because Toyota is offering this update on their own and is not being compelled to do so by any government agency.

Why it's listed as safety as opposed to customer experience is beyond me. This is one of those situations where no matter what they do someone will whine and complain. If Toyota had listed this as a "customer experience" recall, said complainers (yeah a1a1a1, I'm talking to you) would be talking about how Toyota isn't taking this seriously (as though you lightheartedly recall 200,000 odd vehicles). Since it is listed a "safety recall" the paranoid amongst us feel validated, "See, I knew it was dangerous!" As I said, a no win situation.

It's funny to see Bighouse run with Bob's claiming it proves something I don't think I've seen Bob even claim himself. Bob has done an impressive of simply documenting what a bunch of us had already experienced. That doesn't make it more deadly, it just makes it documented.

I keep seeing that final scene from Animal House where Kevin Bacon gets trampled during the parade after trying to calm down the crowd. There are times when I just want to let the lemmings run over the cliff so that the rest of us can get on with life in a mostly rational manner.

 

The skid control ECU is responsible for ABS and VSC. That is the ECU that will be updated, so it's reasonable to say that software in the ABS system will be updated, which is the meaning of the first sentence in the press release.

My guess is that most Prius owners do not understand that there's a power management control (aka hybrid vehicle) ECU, a skid control ECU, an engine ECU, plus other ECUs working together to control the hybrid powertrain. Nor would they understand the details of regen vs. friction braking and the timing of the transition between the two.

Most people know what ABS is since that feature has been around for a couple of decades. It's easier to say the problem is related to ABS, rather than educate the owners and the general public about these tedious details.

 

indeed, many customers do not understand fact that cars have many isolated ecus... i saw questions on digg question poll and one woman said that her navigation is not working properly and asked if that means that her car will not brake properly anymore? (i would guess she related error in navigation computer to all computers or something like that).

 

According to my sources it is definitely in the pipe.

Owners of 3G Prius and HS-250h with specific serial numbers will be contacted via regular mail and dealers will carry out the updates.

Frankly, I am quite used to software updates (silent and TSB based) on my Honda hybrids and it is quite common to get several per year for any number of sub-systems.
So neither the alleged issue nor the pending software update on my 2010 Prius is Earth shattering and if anything can only make my car better. I welcome it


Cheers;

MSantos

 

Re: words mean things

No, I'm not eagerly chasing anything. I just think it's a shame that so many, like yourself, stated that this was not a safety issue and that it's all due to new Prius drivers not being adept enough and knowing how to adjust to "new technology". It's a disservice to the car, ultimately to Toyota, and to drivers to say "it's your fault this happens".

Toyota CLEARLY calls it a safety issue. What's so hard for you to see and understand about that?

And, by the way trying to use ad hominum attacks likening me to "lemmings" in the movie you're referring to is rather childish. I'm being rational. I don't result to such low levels of debate. Please, keep your insults to yourself.

 

Question-- I ordered a Prius III a few weeks back, due to be delivered this week. (Driving a rental '10 Prius until then.) I would guess it will have a manufacture date of sometime in January. I've been told by the dealership that my car will already have the updated ABS software fix, but the language of this recall doesn't seem to say anything about that. Will mine need this fix too?

 

:welcome:
I believe the affected VIN number will be announced soon.
In the meantime, please refer to my post about the Japanese VIN.

Ken@Japan

 

I for one love my hybrid deathbox

 

Re: words mean things

I rather enjoyed his childish insults.

Tom