Toyota and Lexus Still Hating on Plug-Ins and EVs

mmm.

 

Here is the answer to your transportation problems:


2015 Yamaha Zuma 125


Better MPG than anything (100mpg):
Yamaha Zuma Mileage | Fuelly

much smaller CO2 footprint than your EV dream car:
Tesla - 190
Leaf - 150
Zuma - 113

Doesn't fit your transportation needs? You actually need 4 wheels and 100-120cft of enclosed empty space to move? It may come as surprise, but you are one of very few. The number of people that do this is a small percentage of drivers. No, I'm not saying zero, but it is very small.

you can't even cross Tesla's home state - Nevada on quick charges...what are we talking about? there are places where there is more than 162mi btw gas stations.

So why exactly you wouldn't ride a bicycle? you can't get on it to work? Would need to wake up 40min earlier?

This is probably only important to a small percentage <5% of likely drivers. It seems very important to people that hate bicycles. hmm

 

First I was not hinding anything. I thought your premise was TVA was burning more coal for plug-ins, the facts are they are closing down coal. The article I posted with this information also said they are cancelling nuclear projects.

Tennessee Valley Authority to close 8 coal-fired power units - The Washington Post

NRC: Watts Bar Unit 2 Reactivation

Looking at wikipedia just for background, I'm sure you can fill in these missing pieces.
Watts Bar Nuclear Generating Station - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And yes I didn't realize your green color was supposed to be ironic, and no I did not know you were talking about this project that seemed to have started in the 70s, and was restarted in 2007. Thank you for bringing it to our attention in this thread about plug-ins and fuel cells With the cost over runs and low price of wind and natural gas TVA does look like it has canceled its other nuclear power projects. What I am not seeing is the connection to what I said and this plant.

I see 2007 TVA decides to restart construction on a 1.2 GW nuclear unit on a tennessee power plant where a similar unit is running.
In 2010 there is a big push for plug-in cars
In 2013 TVA decides after many lawsuits to close down 3.3 GW of old coal power plants in Georgia and Alabama.

I don't see the cause and effect of closing down coal or adding plug-ins for the decision to restart the nuclear project. Given the cost over runs Are you saying that you think the US will be building a lot more nuclear plants for plug-in demand?

The plug-in demand is probably highest in southern california where they recently closed permanently San Onofre units 2 and 3 totalling 2.3 GW. I don't think it had anything to do with plug-ins there either.

Again I don't think we will add any net coal or nuclear plants for plug-in demand in the US. Economics and regulation are just against it. There is construction like at TVA that has nothing to do with plug-in demand, but their are more GW of plants closing down than being constructed. We may allocate some of the coal and nuclear demand to the cars though.

 

No, if I were to switch to a moped it would be electric, far more efficient.
Rather than that, an electric assist bicycle is more likely.

Winter sucks though, and we have a rather poor bike path system in Minnesota, so an enclosed vehicle is likely what I will stick with, due to convenience, utility and safety.
Very much the same reasons (although there are more) I prefer EVs over gas.

 

they get better range in cold than gasers, no?

I am surprised about you comment on poor bike path system. Friend who visited twin cities last year prized it for one of the best he had seen.

 

The Minneapolis system is actually pretty good. Outside of Minneapolis is awful with the exception of one or two suburbs.

 

Yep absolutely infrastructure will be slow on seldom traveled traveled roads. If you are planning on driving long distances on out the way roads, I don't there will be tesla superchargers for you.

California is tesla's home state. Nevada is where the gigafactory is being built. Nevada is covered on I10 and I80 the main routes but it will take until the end of next year to fill in other routes in the state. My state texas is good enough for me today, but I would be forced to charge fully in columbus today as the stations between there and lake charles won't be built until next year.
Here is a map of the chargers, and you can see what they plan to build in the next year and a half.
Supercharger | Tesla Motors

compare to fuel cell map
Station map | California Fuel Cell Partnership

INteresting, I'm not quite sure of your point. I do ride my bicycle to work some days. I don't if I need to wear a suit, or have to take people to lunch, or if its hot and I would arrive all sweaty, or if its raining, or looks like it will be when I come home. Well excuses or not, I don't ride to work about 80% of the time. A motorcycle would work on those hot days and those suit days, but its not much more efficient than my car. But it would work a lot of the time a bicycle won't, but I still need a car, and rent a cars when I fly.

I poured beers for MS-150 riders on Sunday, and yes I road my bike down to the beer sponsors tent. The poor riders had the saturday portion canceled because of bad weather. So even if you are in shape to ride 150 miles, and have the time set aside to do it with full support on the ride, weather can get in the way. 60 mile per hour winds and a thunderstom are bad enough in a car.

I was saying less than 5% care about going on thousand mile trips. I wasn't saying that people didn't go on 400 mile trips, like LA to las vegas. Here a tesla would be fine, a leaf a total pain but would make it, and a fuel cell might get you there, but couldn't get you back.

 

The roads on my 14 mile one way commute are so NOT bike friendly. I (as do so many) have a fear of getting hit by a car. 14 miles on a flat bar bike would suck. No way I'm riding my $3,000+ Specialized roubaix. If I had a 5 mile commute with good route, I'd ride sometimesI wonder if all the Tesla supercharger stations are getting used and how often.

 

Now it's more than hating on plug-ins and EVs, the gloves are off!

Fueled by Bullsh*t | Presented by Toyota Mirai

 

i think toyota is getting spammed.

 

Another headline: Toyota's message to critics who, um, pooh-pooh fuel cells

 

I just went over Mirai specs, and it only has 1.6kWh battery?

Makes you curious if fitting bigger 4-6kWh pack with downsized fuel cell would have made it cheaper.

Or perhaps it would be cheaper to stick in something like this?
A Turbine Generator in a Suitcase | New Energy and Fuel

 

is that doc browns?

 

Bigger battery, smaller fuel cell, and a plug should be doable. I think the hold up is the hydrogen tanks. They are big and bulky themselves. A 4 to 6 kWh pack would allow maybe 20 miles of grid EV. That pack would require one of the hydrogen tanks to be removed. So the fuel cell range will drop to 150 to 200 miles.It can still refuel fast, but most people would see that range as too short for long trips, if they were possible.

 

Haha Sergiospl, thanks for sharing that video. That engineer just inadvertently showed how inefficient it is to get hydrogen, what with all those steps to get the cow poop, take it to a place to decompose, then fill up some tanks, then take the tank to a hydrogen filling facility, to finally get some "gas" in the Mirai. Wasting a lot of regular gas in the process too.

I hope Tesla makes a parody video of this, where they show how you "fill up" a Model S, and show someone connecting it to a power outlet in a house that has solar panels on it. Then end the video with "Tesla relies on even less BS than Toyota does with their hydrogen".

 

South of the river is great. Those cities have to top-notch interconnected bike paths... Medota, Eagan, Burnsville, Apple Valley, Rosemount, Lakeville, Farmington.

 

Is your 5% a wild guess or you have numbers to back it up?

Just to set a baseline:

1) Average male driver in age btw 20 and 54 drives 18,000mi or more a year:
20-34 17,976
35-54 18,858
Source: Average Annual Miles per Driver by Age Group

2) Average distance to work is 16mi
What&#039;s the average commuting distance for americans?

3) with 250 work days commute accounts to 250*16*2=8000mi

4) Which leaves 10,000mi to be driven over reminding 115 days.

How could you possibly drive as much and avoid taking long trips? are you saying that only 5% (6 days) of these 115 days people take long trips? or is it 5% of 365 days? (18 days)?

Bottom line: don't make assumptions just because you personally don't take long trip

 

Self-hypnosis?
Not sure how it could be more efficient:

 

No self hypnosis here, perhaps for you though?
If you notice the MPGe, it is double the pure efficiency.

What you circled was cost, not efficiency.

But to address cost as well, you have chosen an outlier, the PiP. This is one of many reasons so many look at the Prius as such a failure.

For me, the cost to drive 25 miles in my inefficient EV would be about ¢51.
For s similar gas car, it would be $2.39.
For an efficient gas car such as the Prius it would be $1.19.

For me, the cost of driving our efficient EV 25 miles would be about ¢40. About one third the cost of driving a Prius.

So for this driver, EV wins, hands down, in terms of both efficiency, and cost.

 

you forgot ymmv.