Featured Toyota and Kenworth Team up to Create a Fuel Cell Regional Semi

TX has a lot too. Gov likes to give pardons, so I guess he gets one. But I’m sure there are a million excuses for the debt.

I’m just talking about regular folks driving, then they die of cancer and there’s a funeral and that’s the end of them. Breathing in tailpipe gas for decades definitely doesn’t prevent cancer.

TX is doing well too. Gov gets a pardon. Debt by State 2024

 

FCEV with big buffer battery isn't new. Nissan did it with an eNV200 ethanol FCEV test mule in Brazil. They left the Leaf sized battery in place, while taking out the charger. In their case, it was to allow the use of a smaller, cheaper fuel cell. A fuel cell REx if you will.

Is Toyota going with liquid hydrogen, or sticking with high pressure gas for these trucks? With the ideal refueling rate for a gaseous hydrogen car in mind, it will take something like 30 minutes to refuel one of these. That makes no charger for the 200kWh battery even more of a shame. Even with just charging overnight, you could add at least 50 miles of range for the next day.

The logic was actually that not changing consumer behavior for refueling would make adoption easier. Getting such fast fills from hydrogen just ended up taking a lot of hardware for a lot of cost. Cheaper for gas stations to install chargers along side the gas pumps.

It could work for places using hydrogen for grid storage. Grid batteries aren't going to cut it for using solar in places with a monsoon season. Maybe making some excess for local truck or bus fleets wouldn't be a big added cost. Same with locations of other hydrogen production hubs.

While the niche part helps with infrastructure, it doesn't for the FCEVs. The main hurdle there to lower prices is manufacturing scale. Niche plus making a lot doesn't mix.

We need more green hydrogen, and even blue and pink. We use hydrogen for many things. Like growing food. So we need cleaner sources to come online in order to shut down the dirty ones we are using.

News about clean hydrogen development isn't all good for hydrogen transportation. When you have green hydrogen, converting it into methanol, methane, diesel, and gasoline doesn't take much more effort. With distribution systems already in place for those, the added cost of making them is acceptable vs making hydrogen infrastructure at the scale needed for it to take their place.

 

At last, a great use for a hydrogen fuel cell car:

Bob Wilson

 

Walmart Canada puts hydrogen fuel cell trucks on the road - TheTrucker.com

"Walmart Canada’s new hydrogen fuel cell-powered electric semi-truck is now on the roads in Mississauga, Ontario"
"According to Natural Resources Canada, hydrogen is the simplest, lightest and most abundant element on earth, has the highest energy per unit of any fuel and plays a critical role in working towards a carbon-neutral future."

 

experimental hydrogen mules - always inexplicable. The regular Auto industry seems to struggle with much simpler upgrades such as 48V architecture & 800V charging speeds.
So, how fraudulent are some of the hydrogen overpromises & under delivers? Still .... I'm sure it'll be just fine.

Nikola founder Trevor Milton sentenced to 4 years in prison
.

 

Hydrogen Trucks Market Share, Size, Demand & Growth | 2033 (futuremarketinsights.com)
"The global hydrogen trucks market is estimated to grow by US$ 3.84 Billion in 2023. It is estimated to grow at a promising and notable CAGR of 41% during the forecast period, anticipated to reach more than US$ 119.18 Billion by the end of 2033.

The key factors that impact the growth of the global market include a surge in environmental concerns, an increase in government initiatives for the development of hydrogen fuel cell infrastructure, the high initial investment in infrastructure, technological advancement, and future potential. The key advantages of hydrogen trucks are that they include technologies such as quick fill-up times like gasoline and a long driving range on a single tank."

Maybe time to circle the anti-hydrogen fuel clown carts - Hydrogen airplanes are here:

This Air Taxi Took a 500-Mile, Hydrogen-Powered Flight in a 'Seminal Moment for Aviation' | Inc.com


Newest Hydrogen plane

 

Yes .... speaking of overpromises .... keep 'em
coming
PT Barnum said it best. "there's a sucker born every minute"

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-transit-s-90m-hydrogen-bus-fleet-to-be-sold-off-converted-to-diesel-1.2861060
.

 

Let the clown cart circling begin- there is even more progress

31 new projects advancing research and innovation on hydrogen technologies - European Commission (europa.eu)
"The funding will support 31 new projects involving 28 different countries and across the whole hydrogen value chain: from continuous support to very innovative European electrolysis technologies, large-scale demonstration of 1,000 tonnes underground hydrogen storage in depleted natural gas reservoirs, liquid hydrogen refuelling stations, multi-MW fuel cells for maritime applications or fuel cell-based systems for Non-Road Mobile Machinery, next generation of hydrogen turbines or retrofitting existing machinery in hard-to-abate industries, to the building of the European workforce with a Hydrogen Academy and preparing the next generation of products by addressing the strategic research challenges."

"4 more new Hydrogen Valleys projects for EUR 47 million have also just been signed: one big valley in Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes (France) and another 3 small valleys in Pays de la Loire (France), northern Denmark and Alentejo (Portugal). These innovative fully functioning eco-systems across different EU countries are joining the other already announced 9 Hydrogen Valleys projects co-funded by the Clean Hydrogen Partnership under Call 2022. "

 

Why hydrogen stocks can fall even further

Why hydrogen stocks can fall even further - H2-international.

 

This should be an interesting test.
They state they will be using the truck for long distance hauling.

If successful, it should work well to use this for long haul and electric for shorter routes.
Considering Canada’s experience with hydrogen buses, I am a bit surprised. But it is a different use case.

Good test though and it puts minimal costs on the public for this experiment.

 

"...hydrogen is the simplest, lightest and most abundant element on earth, has the highest energy per unit of any fuel ..."

They leave out the fact that virtually all the hydrogen on Earth is tied up in other compounds, and will take energy to free it for use. Then while hydrogen has a lot of energy per weight, it is the lightest gas out there, so the energy per volume is pretty poor compared to other fuels. A high pressure tank that hold 5kg of hydrogen can hold 30 gallons of gasoline.

The hydrogen vehicle market size was $1.46 billion to $3.7 billion in 2022 depending on you you ask. 2023 should have been $5.23 billion by those sources.
Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicle Market - Price, Size, Share & Growth
Hydrogen Trucks Market Size, Share, Trends, Report 2032

Maybe it will work for planes, or maybe we'll just convert the hydrogen into jet fuel. I believe thats easier than turning it into gasoline.

I keep saying we need green hydrogen, and most of these projects are in support of green hydrogen to replace grey. The rest is for grid energy and off road use. The liquid refueling stations might be for trucks.

Green hydrogen investment to replace current hydrogen use, and research into uses where we don't have other solutions is good. That is not what Toyota was doing. They were trying to force hydrogen into passenger cars because that seemed a good solution for Japan, but mostly because it fit their profit making business model better.

 

Looks like someone forgot to tell MIT that Hydrogen is a dead technology and a foolish experiment

Hydrogen Energy and Technology Center at MIT | Hydrogen Research at MIT

 

yes yes yes..

but- you forgot to mention that Toyota is actively building Fuel Cells for the trucking industry at its Kentucky Plant- right now,
and.. that Toyota is actively pursuing and helping construct Green Hydrogen Stations,
and... that Toyota has developed a multi fuel engine that can run on Hydrogen,
and... that Toyota has committed to a multi-faceted approach to transportation to help the world solve its energy/ pollution problem.

Here is a quiz for you who said this Toyota or MIT
"conducts world-class applied research aimed at advancing knowledge, developing new technologies, and training the next generation of scientists and engineers in the area of hydrogen production, cryogenics, liquefaction, storage and transportation."

It is not fair to jump in and out of a clown cart to make selective negative comments about a Company, Reasearch Facility, or promising new technologies.

Please either stay in the clown cart or get out - you'll feel better and be more balanced for the effort.

If you have a problem with Toyota write to their Public Affairs Department - Before I did that I might take a long look in the mirror and weigh what Toyota is doing for society in the way of jobs, pollution solutions, cars that minimize pollution and maximize new technology, their world renowned contributions to society to help with disaster mitigation, as well as their unwavering commitment to make the world a better place to live in the future and then weigh that against your contributions.

When I did that for myself it was a good way to learn humility.

 

You seem insistent that people either like hydrogen for all uses, or dislike it for all uses.
You then repeatedly insult people.

Hydrogen is currently used successfully for many things.
Hydrogen also has great promise for a number of other applications.
Hydrogen sucks for light duty fleet/personal transportation.

A screwdriver is a great tool. Don’t call people clowns because they recognize a screwdriver makes a lousy wrench.

 

Who cares who's payin for what? The lobbies on the Hill, that's who! And you too?
Got a story to make everyone believe?
How it works .... As long as someone else pays for it and we get a cut of the lobbying proceeds.

currently listening to Don Henley In the Garden of Allah "Gentlemen, and I use that word loose leaf"

cuse me did I faux pas

 

There is a big difference between saying a screwdriver is no good because you couldn't remove a bolt with it - unbalanced view- and having a balanced view saying a screwdriver is great for removing a screw, prying and a few other things but maybe missing the mark on removing a nut - that is balanced.

You will realize that as you mature.

You many also come to realize that all companies do good and maybe not so good things - but to have a balance view you must take a wholistic look at the company.

Keep trying and one day you will actually get it.

Seek to understand and you will be understood.

The first step is listening.

 

It looks like in the first half of the year nikola delivered 112 fuel cell trucks to north america. Its more than I expected. Canada's hydrogen buses were handicapped by wanting to fuel with renewables, meaning that the fuel was very expensive, and down time was high back then. Downtime should be lower but there still is the cost and reliability of the fuel.

I would not trust that source at all. The hydrogen truck market was tiny in 2023, even at $384,000 per truck that would mean that the growth would need to be 10,000 trucks. We know there were hundreds not thousands of fcv trucks sold last year. Growth may be right. I think there were only 60,000 medium and heavy BEV trucks sold in 2022. There are probably 7000 medium and heavy fuel cell trucks running on the the road, with sales starting in 2017.

I'm happy they are testing them, and who knows that may get unsubsidized fueling costs down, but we are at the market test phase of fuel cell trucks, not the levels that site is talking about. Maybe they are using the figures of the total fuel cell market, including those used to produce electricity.

 

What a great definition of "irony" used in this very post ... bragging how they have learned humility .... all the while referencing hydrogen opposition as clown cart. Might as well take out ads on how humble they truly are.
Meanwhile, looking at the Brilliance of liquid hydrogen for automotive & trucking transportation - consider the waste;

[QUOTE ] ".... liquid hydrogen can provide a lot of advantages, its uses are restricted in part because liquefying hydrogen by existing conventional methods consumes a large amount of energy (around 30% of its heating value). Liquefying 1 kg of hydrogen in a medium-size plant requires 10 to 13 kWh of energy (electricity) (Winter and Nitsch 1988). In addition, boil-off losses associated with the storage, transportation, and handling of liquid hydrogen can consume up to 40% of its available combustion energy ...." [/QUOTE]
Liquid Hydrogen - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics.

Funny also how researchers want to Tout their Miracle ( evidence by positive hydrogen promoters linked above) product but never want to pay for it. Always best to consider what side of the bread that the butter is on.

 

"...in the area of hydrogen production, cryogenics, liquefaction, storage..."

Those are all areas that apply to using green hydrogen as a replacement for our current uses for grey hydrogen, and also other transportation uses.

The transportation photo there is of a plane and a tanker trailer. There transportation uses where hydrogen might work. Then e-fuels all start with green hydrogen, so MIT could be focused on that.

The fuel cell made for trucks is the one they developed for the Mirai. A truck just uses two. If Toyota had been pursuing commercial hydrogen trucks earlier, this wouldn't look like a fall back plan after the failure of the Mirai.

Toyota only lent their name to some of those green stations, and funds they spend for it in Japan are because the government got tired of paying for everything. For Japan they funded hydrogen from brown coal.

BMW and Mazda built bi-fuel engines that ran on hydrogen over a decade ago. They even sold some cars with them back then. If they had made a straight hybrid fueled ICE car, they could have sold it in California for the same ZEV credits as a PHEV at the time. More hydrogen cars could have supported the infrastructure. But they likely figured buyers would balk at the performance and efficiency for the price of fuel then. Perhaps Toyota has improved those issues, but the price in California is now double, if you can get it.

No one here is denying Toyota did a bad job with hybrids. They did have tunnel vision in regards to hydrogen though. Which lead to them marketing and lobbying against plug ins instead of investing in them. That lead to a shake up at the company, and Toyoda stepping down as CEO.

Maybe you should read yours and others' sources here with a more critical eye instead of assuming hydrogen is a sure thing because Toyota supports it. I showed that those hydrogen market projections have a lot of variability. Did you look at them, or just had to insult me?

I am saying this new screwdriver could work with tough to loosen screws, but maybe not use it as a nut driver when we got a couple of good wrenches already.

Others have gotten tired of listening to the companies insisting their screw driver could remove a bolt for decades.