Featured Toyota, a hybrid pioneer, struggles to master electric vehicles

Can I buy a new EV as a median wage (or bit less) earner right now?
Yes if:

1. If I live in a state like Colorado or maybe California with a state incentive as well as the federal incentive.
   
2. If I can find a base LT1 Chevy Bolt.
3. If I can get it on a lease deal that includes the $7,500 Federal Tax credit in the deal price.
   
4. If I can, while leasing, save up enough to pay for the rest of the car outright at the end of leasing.
5. If I can do that before they stop production of the Bolt this year.
6. Otherwise, no.

Did I fail the IQ test? I couldn't tell if it was multiple choice or not.

 

i wouldn't even buy a hybrid if i weren't comfortable with exorbitant dealer repair costs.
99% of private mechs won't work on hybrids, never mind bevs

 

I couldn't get a Nissan dealer to even make me a spare key for the Nissan Leaf I once had. I kind of miss that car. Being stranded 30 miles from where I started with a full battery in the middle of a blizzard, now that I don't miss.

 

Is that still the case, d'y'think? Sheesh, they've been around for, like, a generation now.

 

of course i'm making up that number, but every mech i talk to, and from most of the posts here, they are very difficult to find.
mention tech stream, and their eyes glaze over.

 

Weber has the tear downs, he was impressed by Toyota’s electric motors. The gen 4 Prime has an mpge of 133. Then someone writes Toyota doesn’t know how to make electric drivetrains.

Then if we go New Test we see He says feed the poor. He also has a parable about vineyard workers complaining they worked more than the newer workers for the same money. It’s like this was already being discussed 2000 years ago. Another one is the poor widow woman giving her mite from her necessities gives more than the rich man out of his excess.
So I don’t know what a story about monkeys instincts shows anyway. I doubt if they are thinking well he got more and worked less for it. My dog always pesters me for what I’m eating even though his food bowel has better things in it.
Vandals have many possible reasons. Maybe there was no political reason or any reason except to harm things.

 

that's just shooting themselves in the foot. they need techstream to fix a corolla.

 

yeah, at that point, you get the 'take it to a dealer' routine. they are so busy (around here) they don't want to deal with anything beyond their competency.
and of course, we read about dealers who just throw parts at complicated problems

 

Their released statement was about being against the environmental harm caused by cars, including the batteries of BEVs.

 

At least within 70 miles of where I live, I've asked around all the mechanic shops if any of them can fix my Avalon radio and not one said they could. I take it none of them have Techstream.

70 miles from here is a Toyota Dealer, but they do charge more than MSRP for parts when I've ordered through them, so I assume their work is also expensive.

I did have a dealer over 200 miles from here flush the radiators and change the oil on the Avalon once, and I drove clear over there just for that and some parts, since they sell parts for cheaper. The flush and oil changed ended up being about $500 IIRC, not including the parts I bought. It also seemed to take forever. The appointment was early, but they didn't have it done until about closing time. We ended up driving back home in the dark.

 

In August, I paid $15k for a 2017 BMW i3-REx, 57k mi, and 28-28.5 kWh battery. My benchmarks show 106 mi EV and 88 mi gas at 65 mph. Four seater, carbon fiber body on aluminum frame. Two other dealers had similar BMW i3. It was 835 mi away in Florida.

There are good bargains out there.

Bob Wilson

 

Yes, you've mentioned that vehicle before. There is a bit of a difference between a brand new Bolt and a 6-year-old BMW i3-REx. One has a warranty, for an example. Of course that same one with a warranty also doesn't really exist for the price it is marketed as starting out at.

One question. What do you mean by 106 mi EV and 88 mi gas? Is that fuel mileage or range. Seeing how 88mpg seems a bit hard to come by, I would guess that's range. 195 miles is not very much range. Mind you, if it costs $15,000, that would be the family car. We wouldn't have a separate gasser or long range EV to take us 600 miles one way to visit the kids' grandparents.

 

The operational scenario is to use EV for local travel:

• Green line circle 50 mi radius - can run EV errands out and back at ~$2.90/100 mi. not including the ~10% free chargers available at retailers and restaurants. Going clockwise from 12 o'clock: Fayetteville, Scottsburo, Guntersville, Arab, Decatur, and Athens.
• Red line circle 100 mi radius - can run EV errands out and get a 40 minute, fast DC charge, ~$7.00, and return for about ~$10 out and back for 200 mi. or ~$5/100 mi.
• Outside of the red line, use the Range Extender - typically start the REx early with 2.3 gal of mid-grade gas every 88 miles at ~$3.61/gal (Costco), ~$10/100 mi, 24x7.

My BMW battery warranty and status is important:

• 8 year or 100,000 mi
  • 7 year and 59,000 mi
• 70% capacity of 28.3 kWh
  • 98% capacity 28-28.5 kWh

FYI, my Tesla has a similar warranty:

• Expired 115,000 mi
• ~88% capacity, ~48 kWh from 55 kWh

Bob Wilson

 

I went onto Plugshare and just found out they're going to put the very first DC quick charging station here in the town I live at, although it will be at a liquor store, so I'm not sure how that will work out. Outside of that there is now one that is some 20 miles west, at a marina on a lake that is closed in the winter and apparently reserved for those that use the marina.

Other than that, the next charging station, DCQC or otherwise, either east or west, its is about 60 or 70 miles away from here, over steep mountain passes with grades that go up several thousand feet.

The next station south is over 100 miles away. There is also a section that's 78 miles with no gas stations

The next charging station North is 85 miles away, and over steep mountain passes and a lot of dirt road, when open in the summer. When it isn't open, you have to go the long way around, with the first charging station still 83 miles away from here.

So 190 miles could work, but would require planing. But that's probably about the same as a Chevy Bolt or Tesla Model 3 Standard. Is it possible to select gas in the i3 so as to save battery to have both battery and gas for certain sections?

 

In the past - haven't they counted a regular hybrid as 'battery powered'?
.

 

We code the BMW i3 REx with an App and OBD interface:

• Enable REx at 75% battery SOC
• Increase tank capacity from 1.9 to 2.3 gal
• Add tire temperature with pressure

There are three battery sizes:

• 60 Ah - 2014-2016, ~18.3 kWh
• 94 Ah - 2017-2018, ~28.3 kWh
• 120 Ah - 2019-2021, ~37.9 kWh

Bob Wilson

 

Toyota has destroyed their own credibility.

Bob Wilson

 

Officially, not in the US. To get more ZEV credits, BMW agreed to CARB's hobbling of the system. they were worried about people buying a i3 REx, and not charging it. So effective tank size was cut a little, and the car would only go into hybrid mode when the traction pack was nearly drained. Which leads to the car being under powered in mountains and at freeway speeds.

Its program can be set to European spec that allows the driver to switch to HV mode when they need it.

Yep.

 

Thank you, I'd like to amplify:

California was right to be concerned about Plug-in Hybrid Electric cars being used for getting the HOV sticker and running on gas and seldom, if ever, running on electric. So they required the electric range to be greater than the gas range to encourage EV operation. A former Prius Prime owner, my low-trim model had control laws that infuriated me by kicking on the gas engine even when I didn't want it to run (see posting in PriusChat.)

BMW i3 'coding' is how we modify the control laws table to achieve:

• Driver chosen REx operation at 75% or lower battery SOC. Better than nothing, I would prefer it remember the last mode and give driver ability to switch between modes at any SOC. So on long cross country drives, the REx would come on automatically but once nearing the destination, the driver can switch to EV for arrival and local driving.
• Expand usable gas from 1.9 to 2.3 gallons. I am still contemplating a hardware hack that would spoof the low fuel indication so we could get all the gas the EPA claims it holds.
• Setting the default driving style from: (1) Comfort (power mode); (2) Eco Pro (efficient), and; (3) Eco Pro+ (hair shirt mode.)
• Add tire temperature to pressure display.

Fully coded, my BMW i3-REx achieves the California goal with 106 mi EV and 88 mi gas range. But then I'm a cheapskate and drive on electric as much as practical.

Bob Wilson

 

CARB concerns were justified because people were buying PHEVs just for HOV stickers. Some even admitted they had no intention of charging here. Those were all PHEVs that had full performance in hybrid mode though. That isn't the case with a REx type PHEV. The design philosophy there is that the engine is just there to supplement the EV side. It's like a moped or e-bike. The motor or engine could propel the bike on its own, but the system works better combining that with pedaling. Under CARB rules, you were only allowed to use the powered side of the bike after you were exhausted.