Toyota "60 MPG" disclaimer:

yes you can assume that. both cars underwent identical tests. oh course the ultimate determination of your performance will be your driving patterns

 

Indeed. You are probably more likely to get EPA estimate for Prius than for some other gas only vehicle.

 

For realistic numbers, I like Consumer Reports:

Consumer Reports

I know some will scoff at 44 mpg overall, but in my experience - this is what many Prius owners are getting. Some are getting 55 MPG, some are getting 38 MPG. I drove down SR99 from Lynnwood to Seattle at got 70.1 MPG over 13 miles. However, the trip back dropped my average down to 51 MPG. Speed was about 35 MPH to 45 MPH.

I am getting around 47 MPG, but now it is getting colder (60F) I am seeing this drop to around 44 MPG.

The consumer reports runs the vehicle for 150 miles to get a typical MPG and for the Prius, they report 48 MPG which is exactly what I get on a longer run down to Portland from Seattle where I drive between 60 MPH and 68 MPH. They use a car from the car lot - no special vehicle submitted from the car manufacturer.

When the EPA revises it's test methods, I expect their numbers to fall in line with CR.

 

If you dock the Prius down to lower epa mpg, then you better hit everyone.

I ordered a 2006 prius. When I was discussing the numbers on why/how that will work for me, my inlaws said... "I hope it gets somewhere near what it claims it will becuase Bob (or someone) they know bought the Civic hybrid and is only getting about 34mpg, well below the sticker."


My only saving grace is not the sticker on the window of the car... it's you all.. you're real world mpg's that give me real hope...

 

I'm a new Prius owner 1500 miles in just over a month. My average is 45 mpg best is 57 mpg. And this is with real world type driving. I bought the Prius to get better milage and am getting just what I hoped for. Any one that pays attention to the EPA sticker needs to see a palm reader befor buying thier next car. THE EPA IS NOT SET UP TO COMPAR NEW LOW EMISSIONS VEHICLES. And as already pointed out they have not done so good on any other car as a matter of fact.

 

You may wish to look at the Oct Consumer Reports. They tested 150 cars (although I am far from sure it was done under same climate conditions), and compared to EPA. All the auto data is not presented, unfortunately, but they say the following:

On average, cars tested performed on their cycle resulted in EPA ~ 10% less than EPA. Not meeting EPA became the expectation, hybrid or not.

Hybrid cars deviated more from EPA than non-hybrids, particularly in the city test. This was true as a percentage, not just in absolute numbers (which would be expected, given the overall higher results of hybrids). The civic deviated more than the Prius, and accounted for a not small amount of the oft reported hybrid MPG discrepancy.

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What to buy ?
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If the cars had the same feature set I cared about, and had the same subjective attraction, I personally would buy the Civic if I predominantly drove highways in order to pay a lesser sticker price. If the prices are the same, I think the Prius is superior to the current Civic hybrid, but be sure to check out the '06 Civic hybrid before you decide. It is coming out next week.

If the car is predominantly used in city/suburban driving, I think the Prius is the better choice, even at a higher price.

 

Although everyone wants to bash the high claims of a stick, I say the sticker is too conservative.

The first week of Oct I drove with my two daughters from Fort Worth, Texas to Kimberling City, Missouri. I got 61.4 mpg over 452 miles...see the screen shot.

This car can get great mileage if you try. If great mpg isn't required, have fun driving the car and you'll still get better mileage than 99% of the other cars.

Cheers,
Keith

 

The Prius does have two problems not faced by most cars.

First it has a small engine. This makes the mpg much more variable with speed hills, etc. than an over powered big engine car. This is true for all small 3-4 cylinder engine cars.

Second, the Prius EPA for city is greater than the highway. This if they are combined might lead some to conclude they should get greater than highway mpg where with most cars the combined number leads people to expect a bit less than highway.

For me I only ever looked at the highway since I know what that means, and I know city varies all over the place vs the EPA city test. But Highway just means driving steady at around 55-60 mph.

For most cars people that get less than EPA highway mpg may just figure they had a bit of city driving mixed in as most of us do. But with Prius that won't work to lower expectations.

 

Jack06,

The remainder of my post also pointed out that different hybrids have varying EPA/CR discrepancies. I'll also add that the discrepancy was a smooth continum, and I am not at all sure the Prius was below all non-hybrids in city driving. So it is unfair to single out the Prius.

I personally like the expanded ymmv message:
EPA numbers are valid for COMPARISON PURPOSES between models. Individual MPG in this model will likely be different due to driver handling and road conditions. To learn how to maximize your personal MPG in this car, go to hllp://www.noleadfooting.org

Current tank: 65 MPG (and dropping). Bloody Winter.

 

Toyota shouldn't put anything out--it's EPA test and they have the disclaimer. You cannot eliminate stupidity.

 

I don't see how it would be a bad thing for them to put some sort of YMMV disclaimer on the car. Besides "vary" could also mean you get even better (although it generally doesn't).

 

When I first put my name on a list in September '04 it was the second time I saw a Prius and the first time I saw one on a dealer's lot. When I looked at the sticker the dealer said that 44mpg is more realistic. Consumer Reports said as much in their review of the 2004 so I knew the sticker wasn't right. I'm happy I'm getting more than the 44mpg (my last car, on the freeway, was 29mpg).

 

I have sometimes wondered if it might not be a 'happy coincidence" but rather a design decision by Toyota from day one since the EPS testing has been in place for many years and the method used is well known to all the auto companies.

Many critics suggest that some schools design their curriculum around the No Child Left Behind testing program. It isn't a big leap to wonder if Toyota might not have done the same regarding EPA testing

 

"If all else fails, read the Instructions.!"

Direct Quote from the window placard on my 2004 Prius (Same panel publishing the 60 and 51 MPG figures):

"Actual Mileage will vary with options, driving conditions, driving habits and vehicle's condition. Results reported to EPA indicate that the majority of vehicles with these estimates will achieve between

51 and 69 mpg in the city
- and between

43 and 59 mpg on the highway."

I can't help but wonder how many Prius owners checked the actual vs. EPA mpg results on their previous vehicles. For myself, I hope the EPA will "mend its ways" and change to a more "real world" set of estimates.

 

I don't think anyone's saying not to report the EPA numbers as EPA numbers; that's obviously the only lawful way to go.

But should Toyota or anyone give the EPA numbers when asked what consumers should expect to get? I say no because it's clear that the average or median driver gets significantly less.

People who say "Well I exceeded the EPA numbers so they're not wrong" are missing the point: It is useful to know the average MPG that consumers will get for a variety of purposes: fuel usage analysis, cost of ownership analysis, pollution prediction, energy policy decisions, diagnosing defects that result in poor MPG, etc. For all of these purposes the average MPG for all consumers is the most useful number, not the "highest readily acheivable by MPG enthusiasts" number.

The concept of MPG is getting pretty abused these days. I can't believe the number of articles I have read from seemingly reputable publications that report 100+ MPG for plug in hybrids, without any asterisk or qualification. The least they could do would be to note how much electricity comes out of the grid per mile driven.

Maybe the articles about hydrogen cars will report "infinite MPG"

 

well then you open up a new can of worms, and that is that MPG stands for gallons of gasoline, so the calculations get a bit squirrely when it's indirectly being used

I agree that the EPA estimates are not cutting it, though. I don't know why the EPA doesn't just drive the cars around town several times (10 - 25) at different times of day or something. That seems like it would be more realistic than whatever they do now.

And maybe they should check out their gas pumps and make sure they're calibrated :lol:

 

When I bought my '04 Prius it was winter in Fargo, ND. I took delivery in January. For those of you who don't know, January in Fargo is so cold that your spit will freeze before it hits the ground. Or just about.

Now, it's one thing to say that the mpg numbers come from the EPA and YMMV and it's just for compraison. But my dealer led me to believe that those numbers were accurate. With my very short commute, in bitterly cold weather, in a brand-new Prius, my first or second tankful was 29 mpg! This was a lot better than the Civic that preceded it. And I bought the Prius for many reasons other than mpg. But I was very disappointed.

If my dealer had told me the truth: that very cold weather and a very short commute will cut your mpg in half, I'd still have bought the car, but I would have known what to expect and not been so disappointed.

When I bought my Honda Civic, 15 years before, the dealer was totally honest with me, about everything.

Toyota makes a good enough car that its dealers could afford to be absolutely honest: It's possible to meet or beat the EPA numbers under ideal conditions and conservative driving habits, but most drivers will get closer to Consumer Reports numbers, lower in severe cold weather.

Honesty is good. Toyota could afford to be honest because its product is superior.

As for the HCH vs the Prius, it's a kazoo vs an oboe. Both can make music, but the Prius incorporates the most sophisticated technology to create something sublime. The HCH is just a Civic with an electric assist.