All too true - I fear that, like so many other large corporations, those running that show probably have no clue of the fundamental engineering/technology behind their products (you think a Cisco CEO would know anything at all about network protocols?) and when the leadership moves blindly forward...catastrophe awaits.
As a prospective Prius purchaser myself, I regularly read this forum and find the information here valuable and interesting. But as an impartial observer, I have to say it's utterly exasperating to see how often anyone who voices an opinion at odds with the party line is swiftly battered down as a "troll". Surely discussion and debate is what a forum is supposed to be about? And what's with all the deleted posts by "wvgasguy"?
Dial back to before any of this began. If someone presented real-world data contrary to the "party line", the thread went on for sometimes weeks hearing what that person had to say. With this particular event, we've had unknowns posting vague information wanting immediate action while completely disregarding our real-world data. Screaming for lawsuits and demanding harsh punishment isn't exactly objective, especially when the automaker is halted sales in the attempt to provide a satisfying response as quickly as possible. Of course, those who are at odds typically draw the most attention resulting in a skewed perspective. How do we account for all the owner members who simply read & agree without posting anything emotional? .
Thank you. Please folks - take posts (like the OP) with a grain of salt. There is an INCREDIBLE amount of money on the line, and THAT"S the real issue. The EXACT same problem exists in Toyotas as did in Audi - media hysteria and bullshit whipped up by the COMPITITION and ambulance chasing law firms. Don't take my word for it - do some research. Like Audi - Toyota will be proven to be completely innocent in the end. However, just like Audi, the damage will have already been done to their reputation and their bottom line. Ignorance is King - long live the King. -Brad
I'm tired of the Audi analogy being used in this case. There's one HUGE difference here that's blatantly obvious. Toyota's the NUMBER ONE CAR MANUFACTURER in the world. The largest...Audi wasn't even close. So, I think they have the resources and accumen to weather this chain of events. I'm hoping they've learned some valuable lessons from it and will come out of it stronger and more responsive and responsible to their customers. If they're truly a great company, they will.
Even Toyota is no match against the full force of: - media hysteria - the nearly endless $$$ of litigation - all the competition piling on - "drivers" with no understanding of physics or their own machines Toyota, and all that own Toyotas are going to take an INCREDIBLE monitary hit from this sea of lies. There need be no actual proof, nor really ANYTHING of any meaning put forth. Sadly, this is a done deal for Toyota and those who own Toyotas. -Brad
Toyota forgot something: Small is beautiful. As soon as Toyota became the biggest auto maker, the s**t hit the fan.
Now that is fully into the ridiculous territory Bighouse, the relative of Audi in the 80's and Toyota now has nothing to do with the issue. That's like saying Audi is a German car and Toyota makes a bunch of their cars in Japan so you can't compare the two. The parallels between the two cases are, for me at least, eery. At least I understand the situation today. If Toyota or the NHTSA come out with something different, I'll adjust my thinking. Because the media is prattling non-stop about Toyota defects doesn't mean very much. The media is frequently wrong. In some cases, very wrong. The media seldom admit mistakes. They rarely make their retractions as well known as their original reporting. I do agree with you, that Toyota will ride this storm out, much as Audi did in the 80's. Again, another parallel I would point to. Audi today is even more successful than they were in the 80's before SAI's. Toyota will bounce back from this as well.
Re: Now that is fully into the ridiculous territory I agree almost totally. In the long-term, you are probably correct. However, in the short-term, those of us who own Toyotas have been dealt a great injustice in terms of resale value. Toyota has been dealt the greatest injustice of all via the loss of countless millions (billions?) of earned profit - some of which would have been spent making their autos better for us. -Brad
Since when has it really been a problem? The majority of GENII owners are not having issues like those found in the GENIII.
I do agree with you Russell that Toyota will bounce back from this. I do wonder how the Audi situation would have been different if venues such as PriusChat and POG were around back then. Such venues contribute in positive and negative ways to the hysteria, making it so easy and accessible for everyone to jump in and share data and opinions about the matter...whether that data is real or not, or the opinions based in facts, supposition or wishful thinking. That said, I do think Audi makes a much sexier car line today than they did back then! Maybe the undeserved attention did them some good in the long run???
It is far too early to claim that Toyota will be proven innocent. There could be some real problems hidden in there. But I do agree that media hysteria has gotten far ahead of the available evidence. Toyota is being held to a higher standard than has been demanded of the domestic nameplates.
I experience the brake "slip" in my 2005, and many others have as well. Why should it just be in the 2010 model? Don't they use exactly the same brake system?
the Audi 5000 never had a mechanical problem. the gas pedal was placed to the left of "normal" position because of the tranny tunnel. people who weren't use to it hit the gas pedal thinking it was the brake pedal. it was totally blown out of proportion in the media so much that parking attendants refused to accept the cars in their lots. they even posted signs. the bitch from long island that started a crusade against Audi was later sued by Audi. Audi won and she had to pay but, their compensation was a drop in the bucket next to the losses they suffered. it almost the same media frenzy Toyota is taking as Audi took back then. i lived through it
stupid aphorisms to blame There is nothing like a little fear to drive humans out of their minds. It never ceases to amaze me. Bac, awesome point on short term damage to both owners and the company. Thanks for that news media. I do think the 80's had an impact on Audi in one sense, and this is just my opinion, I think it refocused Audi's American plans. I think they abandoned the idea of being a mainstream vehicle and instead pursued the the goal of becoming a "value" euro brand. And I said "value" in very relative terms. They filled the niche between VW and Mercedes, Porsche. They make a comfortable performance vehicle that is arguably more comfy than Porsche and cheaper than Benzo. It's done well for them.
If the "brake slip" in the GenII models is anything like that in the GenIIIs then my opinion of this whole debacle will definitely change because I do not feel there is a problem with the braking performance or characteristics in my 2005. None, whatsoever.
