Too much oil?

This sounds more like your battery just picked that moment to lose a cell. To verify that your battery has gotten too weak to turn the car over, get a voltmeter, and connect the leads to the proper sides of the battery. Have a friend try to start the engine. Watch the voltage. If it drops below 11 volts, it is bad. Since you are only getting a click, it's likely that you are far below that number under starter loads.

 

Another excellent question! We've already heard that a European Prius requires 10W-40, and most of those sold in Australia require 20W-50.

I really can't see a hurried production line checking the final destination and grabbing a bulk-fill hose from either the 5W-30 rack, 10W-40 rack, or 20W-50 rack. Too much chance for mistakes.

How about Honda? The 5W-20 is only used in North America, depending on location either 10W-40 or 20W-50 is recommended in the rest of the world. Imagine if a Honda destined for Sydney, NSW, was filled with 5W-20 instead of 20W-50. Ooops~!

Maybe Toyota in Japan bulk-fills with just one SAE grade, like 10W-30 or 10W-40. Then it's up to the importing point to use the correct viscosity.

When I bought new my 1990 Toyota 4Runner in Canada, the dealer claimed it took them 2 hours to do the pre-delivery. They had to drain the gear oil and put in fluid suitable for Canada.

They also had to drain the coolant and install the block heater, as they sure don't come from Japan pre-equipped with a block heater. The shop manual also listed a very wide oil viscosity range: 5W-30 up to 20W-50, depending on ambient conditions.

 

how can it be Prius exclusive when the Echo uses the same engine? Every new Toyota engine we get is about 1/8"over the full mark. On my Tundra V8 they sent me a new dipstick with the marks lowered a quarter inch from the old one So how many of these engines were operated with the oil level to high for many thousands of miles/kilometers? I got my new dipstick at about 75,000 km.

 

They sent you a new dipstick! :crazyeyes: Now that is wierd.

 

This is starting to make less sense as time goes on ...

I called my Toyota dealer and the Prius tech claims the motor in our Prius has little in common with the Echo sedan or hatchback. It's Atkinson cycle to begin with, and most of the components are different.

I need an Excedrin ...

 

the engine it the Echo is a 1NZ-FE the Prius is a 1NZ-FXE the difference is the crank is off set 1/2" in relation to the center of the bore and the Prius is and Atkinson cycle which is acomplished with the intake camshaft timing. VVT-I accomplishes that part of the difference. There is also some mechanical differences such as lighter weight connecting rods and pistons because of the low redline in the Prius. The hopped up Prius that Toyota was parading around was equipped with an Echo engine. Sound like you tech needs to go back to ToyotaTech.

 

I stand corrected the Echo uses the offset crankshaft as well.

 

I am becoming increasing confused. I admit to being outside my element can we bring a bit of stability to this conversation.

 

Henry Jayman's tech said
"Apparently, they're only anal-compulsive about overfill on the Prius, not the rest of the fleet. So there must be a good reason for Toyota to be so concerned about too much oil in the Prius"
that's where the Echo/Prius stuff came from.

 

So what's the deal? Is the slight overfill that big of a problem or is it more Urban Legend? I found it very odd my Prius tech warned me several times about overfill, that is any amount beyond Full.

All I had asked him about was how long I should wait before switching to synthetic oil, and that I intended to do it myself. He didn't suggest that only Toyota should change the oil.

Perhaps his best suggestion was to only put in 3 litres, start and check for leaks, and then carefully add around 100ml at a time if I still wanted it on Full.

After my first oil change, the oil level was brought up to slightly (Maybe a mm or two) below Full. When I first took delivery, it was right on Full.

Instead of having a partially full litre bottle of oil sitting around, I'd sooner just dump in all 4. As we have heard some evidence here of problems with overfill (How much overfilled? Never did find out) I don't think I'll take a chance.

I did have a pretty serious problem upon delivery with my 2000 GMC Sierra, but that had to do with the PCV valve, not with how much oil you put in. The PCV valve allowed so much vacuum it sucked the oil right off the heads, so the motor used a lot of oil. With the TSB on the new PCV valve, the oil consumption went away. So PCV problems can cause more serious problems.

Sometimes engine families are completely different, based on application. For example, the Vortec 5.3 in my GMC was an iron block, aluminum head motor. The Vortec 5.3 in the Envoy XL is all aluminum and completely different internally.

I will ask the Prius tech again about how much the Echo motor and the Prius motor really share in common.

 

The Prius and Echo engines share the block, crank, pistons, connecting rods, and heads. The redline of the engine in the Prius is not set there due to the limitations of the engine. It's there due to the limitations of MG1. In effect, the engines in our cars are not operating anything near their potential capacity.

The Atkinson cycle is mimicked with a different camshaft for the intake, and different programming for the VVT-i in the ECM.

This is one area where Toyota saved a boatload of R&D money on this system.

 

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I played a role in drawing attention to overfill in a Prius. But that had nothing to do with engine damage. It was purely a matter MPG influence. I was ticked off after discovering how much extra oil the dealer had put in. So I drained the excess and then some out, bringing the dipstick level from 3/8" beyond full to 1/4" below it. That resulted in a immediate MPG improvement.

Then people began to chime in about how the sludge problem from days past with traditional engines were in part related to overfill too... hence the amplified attention and the concern about engine damage.

Then I made it worse by publishing that oil-change document, which there has been well over 10,000 downloads of now.

The snowball-effect is pretty amazing.

Just look at other Prius influences, like tires and the misunderstandings of EPA and winter-formula gas and emissions and...

 

John would you do me a favour and measure the distance from the stopper at the top of the dipstick to the full line and either PM me or post it here. I'm wondering if there is a variable in the marking of the dipstick. Thanks

 

just check both of ours and the measurements are
2k3) 14 5/8" 372MM
2k4) 14 9/16" 370MM
I'll do some more tests at work and see if there is a variable in the dipsticks. Both our cars were 1/8" over when we got them. 3/8" is probably not a good thing.

 

From the base of the handle (the plastic part that makes direct contact with the engine itself to stop the disptick from going any further in) to top of the full mark is the same as yours: 14 9/16"

 

thanks John. I'm still going to do some study on the engines at work, and see if there is much varation. I'd doubt a lot.

 

John, forgive me for asking but I'm not sure how I relate the picture to the measurements you gave. :roll:

 

I report 371 mm from the "fingerloop stop" to the center of the "full dimple" on 2001 Prius.

Would have to do a lot of searching in the yahoo archives to find the quotations, but what I recall is that too-rapid oil filling is the thing that allows oil to run up the intake manifold. If correct, this could be independent of a volumeric overfill.

DAS, and Tochatihu, half a quart low

 

I will side with the urban legend point of view. My Prius was delivered in Aug 04 with an approx 1/4 of an inch overfill. Since the dealer I bought from was 300 miles away, I decided that Toyota would have left some tolerance for small overfills and have done nothing. Now my Prius is at 5200 miles and at the first oil change I will ofcourse try and have it lower than the full mark. Incidentaly the Prius is parked with the dome fuse and SE/SS off while I am on a month long vacation in Mexico and hopefully will start when I get back!

 

I've worked on Toyota forklifts for 8 years and the first thing you learn is to pull the dipstick while filling the ICE. On the older 2P series which holds four liters of oil, if you put in more than 2 and not let it drain down for 5 minutes before adding the next two it'll run down into the PCV breather hose. I'm always amased that it dosen't fill the valve cover just running normally but I suppose that the feed for the rocker arm shaft doesn't pump enough to over flow the drain back holes in the head/lifter galley. Glad they don't use that series any more.