Time to stop charging my PiP?

Fair question, and therein lies the conundrum, that is why I posted the sneaky smilie

Sensible proposal and I'm open to discussion.

To a point, the devil is in the details! How do we tax the out of State truckers, visitors, etc? Cycle users will want a discount because they will claim their vehicles cause less degradation to the highway system than an automobile. How do we charge for 100% EV vehicles? How do we encourage people to drive more environmentally friendly vehicles that are more fuel efficient (Hey, if I'm going to be taxed the same for miles, I might as well drive a Hummer than a Prius)? This is just the beginning of the obstacles that must be overcome.

This discussion is worthy of it's own thread. Inferno, if you start a new thread, I will join you there for a CIVIL discussion. I think if we put a few of the great minds here on PC to work, we can hammer out the details to make a workable plan. I think we can craft a workable proposal that is better than any ol' Legislature can!

Peace, out.

 

But how would I be taxed since I charge at home on my PV roof system? I have no idea how to separate vehicle use from domestic use!

No disagreement there!

Just so we can say "mission accomplished"?

Inferno, we have two more volunteers for our new thread!

 

My conclusion entirely!

 

wouldn't it be interesting to know how much the state is losing in tax dollars to ev's? i think it's a decoy to make the suv/repubs feel better, and the dollars are minimal.

 

Can't be much 'cause SUV sales are up and sales of plug-ins are:...

 

exactly, just more political pandering.

 

I've read the state of Nevada is keeping an eye on the state of Oregon due to the implementation of taxing for miles driven. Think it was called Orego. I too would like to join the new thread if started.

 

Maybe not wrong, but the following points make for a clearer picture.

1) Look at the tax on your electric bill. You most definitely are paying an substantial energy tax just like gas powered vehicle drivers. The government has not been "denied" any revenue by someone using an EV or PHEV.
2) The gas tax collected by the state and local government is used EXACTLY like the electric tax collected. They use it whatever way they want. More specifically:
3) Governments statements are often based on a public lack of knowledge of how government revenue and expenses are actually handled. There is usually no legal link between all the revenue sources and all the expenditures. Stating that roads are not maintained because gas taxes are too low is pure deception that most folks believe. The reality is two government mismanagements are at work. Mistake one is spending more than receiving. That is just defective administration. The other mismanagement is shortchanging road maintenance for other spending priorities, such as full ride pensions for government workers. (Even with increasing a gas and electric tax by 100% and monitoring every mile of every vehicle cannot overcome financial mismanagement.)

So the idea that a new system of taxation is needed for vehicles due to "fairness" reasons is a con job. That would become apparent once these new vehicle taxes are ADDED to existing gas and electric bill taxes. Raising gas taxes (and electric bill taxes) as a measure to increase revenue overall would be a far more honest approach and statement instead of claiming unfairness must be fixed.

 

What board should this thread be on? Let's have a serious discussion...maybe Alt-Fuel forum?

 

I agree with all your points.

But, in the case of home solar PV, it is possible to power your car and NOT pay taxes on your electricity.
This is definitely a loop hole. (And I just starting taking advantage of it myself.)
But maybe we should just leave this loophole open, and advertise it as such.
Image how terrible it would be for everyone to take advantage of this.

Mike

 

Seriously, some have proposed that the chargers on cars be required to interface only to a government-approved adapter that would report charging use. So even if the the power came from your own PV panel, it would still have to go though a metering device, or else the car would not charge.

 

Forget the taxation on the energy used by vehicles.

With your annual inspection/safety/carb readout, let them read out the miles and combine excise tax, road usage, number of wheels, etc into one bill once a year to go to a pool of fund that is transparent and mainly for transportation. Include in this Earth Carbon usage as well (aka carbon tax). Ultimately, yes, if gas is still cheaper than electric then gas vehicles would be cheaper to drive. Otherwise, maybe gas cars will pay in carbon tax.

The pool of funds should then be divied out to each location by car traffic, wear/tear, and need. This should not be used for other programs/bonuses/raises etc...the only raise will be the oversight of the automated programs/software that is able to divi up the cash successfully. Let there be a surplus too to help build new infrastructure (ie charging stations, etc...) let each town decide how to enact their own surplus.

There, solved, and fair :O

As for paying taxes on solar energy produced, there should be no taxes...we paid (and got rebated) on the system. We still pay a maintenance/usage fee to the electric company. If I'm selling energy to make an income, fine tax me as income tax. If I run a coal plant at my house, carbon tax me...etc, etc.

 

There are two completely unrelated issues that actually should be disentangled. One issue is adequate government revenue. The second issue is forcing an (arbitrary) standard of fairness via retroactive and invasive taxes on personal choices and behaviors.

The revenue problem (if it even exists) will not be solved by invading the privacy of forward thinking folks and clawing extra money out of them. How much money is going to be extracted from a PV oriented family extremely disciplined to never waste power? The answer is very little unless the new tax is extremely aggressive.

The fairness concept only ends when everyone is a clone of everyone else in every aspect. A great many posters offer up all kinds of suggestions based on fairness motivations. It seems very few of us recognize these fairness proposals actually do nothing to address the revenue and infrastructure issues used as justification. If fairness were really the issue, then all the astonishing legal freedoms visited upon wealthy corporations and high income earners (e.g capital gains taxes) would be far more important to address than worrying about someone driving an EV powered by PV.

 

Just start one and put a post here of your new thread. I'll follow.

 

Add vehicle weight, and then yes...I've been saying this for almost a decade, since the first "tax the hybrids" legislation was brought up.
The problem is that the politicians want to do it with a GPS device. Because when you leave the state you are still being taxed for those miles. If enacted as you wrote and as I agree with, it would probably go to court and lose.

Mike

 

Gee, Inferno, I leave for a couple of days and you let a brush fire break out! Good for you.

Well, I understand where you are going with this, but Oregon (a blue State) is leading the charge on taxing hybrids by putting GPS on all OR vehicles.

The problems is taxing ALL hybrids and EV cars not just PHEVs. Has nothing to do with PIP sales being down.

Perhaps maybe.

Yes, that is true, it merits discussion. You are now officially a member.

What should those taxes be used for? Road improvements? Utility infrastructure? General revenue?

Exactly

You are right! I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!

I think you are on to something there.

With the way this list is set up, that appears to be the only option. Perhaps the moderators can move the appropriate posts above to that forum.

Think about how wonderful it might be if EVERYONE took advantage of that! Yes, why should I pay taxes because I am self sufficient and generate my own electricity with a rooftop PV system? I am willing to pay a fee to use the grid, until a reliable battery pack is available.

I will oppose that. I will not be taxed because I am self sufficient.

Sorry Inferno, that won't work. What happens when you travel out of State and use another State's infrastructure?

I agree.

Yes, how much will it cost to implement such a tax? It reminds me of a certain State that was concerned about voter fraud and spent $3M to find THREE fraudulent voters! Yes, in theory that could change the results, but practically, no.

Remember that when you vote for a prospective Presidential candidate and their position on this issue.

It looks like for the time being, it is here.

Yes, that is the Oregon plan. What is the cost of equipment, analysis of data, bureaucracy of taxation compared to the amount of tax collected?

One time I spent $3000 on an accountant to appeal a ruling by the IRS. The IRS admitted they were wrong and apologized and credited my account for $1000. Maybe with all this animosity toward HVs, PHEVs, and EVs, maybe I will just walk........until the politicians figure out how to tax shoe leather!

 

Write this thread has taken quite a turn. I stopped charging my PiP for a short while since my electricity rates were higher than gas prices. Then I bought an EV and switched to TOU rates, so it began to make sense to plug it in again. I now only charge the PiP once a day at night and very rarely opportunity charge since my savings would be minimal compared with leaving a BEV stranded.

I think you mean how "little" the state is losing on taxes.

 

How to Better Improve our Transportation Infrastructure | PriusChat - here is the place for conversation on gas tax, transportation, oregon, etc versus why I stopped charging my PiP lol