Thread to talk about EVs

Oops. Sorry, I didn't make the leap.

No, a gas-only vehicle doesn't get these benefits because it is supported by the millions of gas stations around the country. An EV is fueled when it is parked for a while, and finding an open charging spot is often a life-saver. Or to put it another way, public charging spots make EVs MORE convenient when home-refueling isn't enough. That these charging spots are most often free (not always, certainly, though the charging part is) is just a nice perk.

If you are interested in public charging, here is the driver-supported charging site that lists them all:
http://evchargernews.com/

 

My aquantences in the Plug-in-Prius biz (Energy CS) are convinced that a retail version of what they're doing could be added at the manufacturer level for a premium of about $4k today! That's barely more than GPS and leather! It would allow for at least 20 miles of pure ZEV (uh-oh - Zero Emission Vehicle) range with full power power and full speed capability (vs the speed and power limits we have in stealth mode today). As it is, for the few hand-built ones they're doing today, the cost is about $12k. From now on, I think there will always be an option to add the feature to these cars - but the price will remain high enough that resale value will likely be the least of your worries.

 

Do you think Toyota agrees with them ?

 

I had to read this sentence a couple of times, too

I think his point is that people who want (PH)EV would buy straight from the manufacturer. And the unstated argument is that until a major manufacturer starts doing this, the mod price will be too high to affect the regular Prius price.

 

I agree with you. I think the resale value of hybrid only cars will drop should hybrid with true EV mode emerge. That said I think many people wouldn't be willing to bet on new technology so there would still be a market for the "safe' hybrid technology. Also, not all people would benefit from a EV mode of 30 or so miles, only people (like me) with a short commute. I would happily pay >$4000 for what the people in California has produced. It would be even better if the changed their "gearbox" so that it could run in EV mode at higher speeds the 34 mph (say upto 45).

If they could retrofit it would be even better as it would be a waste of resources for me to sell my car and buy a new one.

 

I say it because if you add $12,000 to an "old" Prius when a "new" one with better capability could be had for $8000 less, your resale profit is out the window.

 

Toyota's official stance is that Americans "don't want to plug it in." Forget the fact that a plug-in hybrid would NEVER need to be plugged in. It could be driven just like we drive them today...

If Toyota is not quietly working on this (seeing as how the current Prius is already set up to do this with ZERO new technology), then I'll come right back here in a few years and eat my shorts.

 

Did the value of the Classic Prius collapse when the 2004's were introduced? Whatever happens will not crush the initial market. Realize that the current Prius is too "out there" for most folks still today. The risk takers will be buying the used 2006 Prius's, while the bleeding edge folks will buy the plug-in's.

Really, I have bigger things to worry about than potential loss of resale value. If we don't advance the technology, then this is the best we'll ever have. Your computer will be out of date in two years too.

 

Yeah that "secret storage area" in the trunk is just too good to be true It seems like they tried and failed (I think they lost their battery patent battle) and so had to create this convinient storage area instead. It might end up being a good thing as they might have been too far ahead of both the market and competition otherwise

I dream they will offer retrofits but I doubt it... It make take several years before Li Ion batteries are cheap enough and have longevity enough... by that time it's time for a newly designed Prius

 

Interestingly enough, this would thrill me. This would mean that the market HAS embraced electric drive - over the protests of the auto makers who have told us for years that we don't want it - that it is something to be feared and ridiculed.

Well, EVERYBODY would benefit from 30 miles of ZEV range. Regardless of the length of your commute, that's 30 clean miles per day that are not gasoline powered. And if you make any start/stop, short trips between commutes, then you save even more.

Breaking the 34mph barrier requires a new ECU, or completely new programming at the minimum. Basically, it requires the car to be built for it - hacking into it has been met with a brick wall time and time again. Has nothing to do with the mechanicals (well, it DOES have to do with the current battery somewhat, however - you just can't pull the power out of that little thing for extended driving. The current ECU is designed to protect THAT battery).

[qutoe]If they could retrofit it would be even better as it would be a waste of resources for me to sell my car and buy a new one.

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Good point. Except that your old car would feed another buyer who isn't buying the latest technology.

 

Good points Darell.

It would thrill me as well if the resale value of my Prius dropped because EV cars where adopted. I could live with that. In the end I don't think it will happen, this transformation will take time. What I do hope is that I can soon buy me an EV car.

I also agree that everyone would benefit from 30 miles EV range but people who do more would probably not spend 4000 for it (to much hassle for to little gain) so it would be mostly popular with people with decent commutes (I think the average commute is 24 miles though so there is a lot of people like me!).

 

Could you explain this 34 mph limit ? I don't understand why a PHEV modded Prius is limited to 34 mph, when a stock Prius can stealth up to ~ 42 mph.

Actually, even the 42 mph limit is entirely unclear to me. I understand that one of the M/G's has to turn to prevent excessive rpm above this speed, but lately I have been reading that this can be battery motive power, and does not *have* to be ICE.

I am sooo confused on this point.

 

I'm definitely not the one to tackle this one! Just repeating what I've been told by those who know. Sorry! GREAT question for a new thread in the main forum, I'd think! You need Prius folks to answer that one, not an EV goober like me.

One thing that I will tell you is that the 34mph "limit" is not a hard-fast rule as you've found. It is, however, the *practical* limit. The guy in charge of Energy CS has driven his personal Plug-in-Prius (I need another acronym here! PNP?) at a steady 55mph for several miles on battery power alone. All it takes is the perfect touch on the go pedal. And he's like a ballerina in that respect. Though I'd appreciated it if that didn't get back to him.

 

30 mile ZEV range really would be great when you think how most people use thier cars. Think of the quick trips to the store. The trips to pick up Suzie from soccer practice and Timmy from piano lessons. I see Hummers driving less than a mile to pick up a gallon of milk.

Oops. You asked me earlier about my commute. I have NONE, as I work at home. My wife commutes 40 miles/day (round trip) in the Rav. ON the weekends, we commute 90 miles (one way) in the Rav from Davis to San Francisco. We charge at my in-law's, do our SF errands, and come home. We put about $12k miles/year on the Rav these days. Last year our gas car (the only other car we had all year) was driven about 3000 miles. In the meantime, I put about 5000 miles per year on my bike.

 

I'm not a Prius expert, but just recalling what I've read on PC. 34mph limit is there when you do the EV mod. The ICE will turn above 34mph. 42mph limit is the "true" limit before the ICE start turning when not in EV mode.

I also read that when the ICE is not turning, there's no oil pressure to lubricate the PSD ("transmission" of the Prius). That's another major problem to make the current Prius plug-in.

Other experts can correct me if I am wrong.