Thoughts on $32K base price?

not really. It sais that the mfrs need to make money on the early adopters, who can well afford these cars. later, during mass acceptance, the price will come down, due to larger scale manufacturing, and hopefully cost savings mass producing lithium battery packs. By then the Federal Tax credits will be gone, but they will no longer be needed. As usual, the "early adopters" are paying more, because they can well afford to.

 

...I am not buying it (the whole EV/PHV) thing, yet, for an East Coaster. It is very hard to be any more effective (environmentally) than a regular Prius. Alls you do with an EV/PHV is divert to 50% coal-fired elec which is even dirtier (in my region/situation). California/West Coast is different scenario (EV's needed in CA). However, Prius "PHV-lite" if you will, seems to be excellent design choice by Toyota to rely on Hybrid eco-strengths with some diversion to elec from gaso. But I am salivating more at Prius v wagon at $26400 base price. Somebody stop me.

 

Not quite, with an EV or PHEV, you can make your own fuel, with rooftop solar, wind etc. Let's see you make your own gasoline.

Also, your missing the entire strategy; the grid can be, and is being cleaned up over time, that's much simpler and faster than the replacement cycle for millions of tailpipe emissions.

There is also the fact that gasoline is a finite resource we need to be shifting away from, at a far greater speed than is currently occurring. EV's and even PHEV's help that goal a lot, as do standard high mileage cars. The point is, there's going to come a time in the not too distant future that many won't be able to afford gas, before it runs out.

 

I think you are taking my quote out of context and personalizing it. My point is, within a thread asking for thoughts about a 32K base price for a plug in Prius, I think it fair to point out that for many new car purchasers premiums are paid for the "image" a vehicle projects. I don't see much difference between someone paying a "premium" for a plug in Prius, with a desire to have the latest and greatest Prius, and all the trappings that go along with it, and someone paying a premium for example, for a Dodge 4X4 pick-up that has capabilities they will seldom or never really use.

I have no idea what your relationship with your 15 year old Subaru is, and I'm glad you like it...but even with that? It isn't your only vehicle, it's your secondary vehicle.

 

I think you are right for employed people, but I am not so sure about self-employed. I am an example of the latter group and because I am able to put large amounts of pre-tax dollars into retirement savings my federal tax liability is well under $7500. I have no idea how the demographics of PIP buyers sort out in this context.

 

Well, I *was* aiming for humor. Sorry it did not come across as intended.

 

...just saying I am not an early-adopter. To answer the OP, the extra $$ is worth it to (1) early-adopters and (2) certain locations such as California that have special eco-needs (and $$ rebates).

 

I would suggest to you, if you don't fit the early adopter profile, the PiP or Leaf is probably avoided at this time, for you.

This is newer battery technology, that doesn't have a long history - yet, partially why it's pricey (not mass manufactured on a large scale yet), and it's pricey to keep the sales in check, as they can't produce them fast enough for a while, neither do they want to, until they have many of them in "the real world", and see how they are performing over time.

 

IMHO there was a great deal of hype on these forums and the press talking about how inexpensive the phv would be. I bought into an early edmunds article on pricing, and apologize for repeating it. Toyota has decided, probably prudently to do a slow roll out, and as such forced buyers to purchase some expensive electronics to get plug in capability. This makes the price higher than I had hoped, and no one should pretend $30k after tax credit doesn't put it in the same early adopter catagory as the volt and leaf. If you want the technology you have to pay, but that probably is just good business.

Toyota is doing a limited production in limited states on the first go around. Its not unreliable, but no one knows how well it will do if people just let their cars sit for years. But because of CARB requirements toyota is putting a long 10 year warranty in CARB states. The second is the batteries will probably become less expensive in the future to manufacture.

 

I wasn't upset. I expect your relationship with your 15 year old Subaru was similar to my recently ended relationship with my 16 year old Honda Accord.

There's a benefit to having transportation that is near monetarly worthless, reliable, and you don't really have to care whether it's waxed and washed.

 

^^ Elec-Me,

My car vaguely remembers what 'washed' means, but it has never heard of 'waxed.'

My wife and I complain sometimes that the car just seems to go forever and it interferes with any plans to replace it. It also does not help that I have around $2000 'Subaru Bux' for any repairs.

Woe is me

 

My first thought about the 32k price was "wow, that's expensive, what are they thinking?"

But then I started to think about it, and now I think it's right about where it needs to be. This is how I came up with that, let me know if you think my logic is flawed:

So right now:

2011 Prius 2 is 23,520.
2011 Prius 3 is 24,520.
2011 Prius 4 is 27,320.

So even though there's no direct 1 to 1 parallel, I think the 3 is the closest, since in 2012 it'll have the 3 door smart key, nav standard, while the 2 won't have any of that.

Nav is a 1930 option on the 3.

So assuming there's no price change, the total for a 3 with nav is 26450 + delivery 760, so 27210.

Now, for the Plug-in Prius, 32000 + 760 delivery = 32760 - 2500 federal rebate = 30260.

If your state has no rebate, that's a difference of 3050 which is right about the range that toyota said it would be. Considering all the additional content that the Plug-in Prius has, it would be a tough choice.

Now in California, there's a 1500 state rebate, the price goes to 28760, and the difference drops to 1550. That makes it IMHO a no brainer to switch to the Plug-in Prius in California, especially with the carpool access.

Now the problem arises when comparing to the volt and the leaf. But when you look at it compared to the other prii, it has to be in that general price range.

 

When you compare it to a Volt or a Leaf, you can't assess it in a bubble. You have to look at the big picture and your resources.

Leaf - If you don't have access to a second car, a Leaf may not be a good option, as you are limited by the short range and refill times(compared to a conventionally powered car). If you have access to a second vehicle for longer trips and you can do all your daily commuting/trips on a single charge, then the Leaf isn't limited by this. Of course, the Leaf size and functionality may not fit your needs and that needs to be taken into account too.

Volt - Well, now you aren't limited by the range issue. Despite what GM calls it, it is a hybrid with a honkin' big battery in it, likely 40 miles of electric driving bliss before kicking into gas mode. While the gas mileage isn't bad, it isn't in the same league as a Prius. Again, you need to assess your daily driving and the versatility of the car (it is a 4 seater....period) for your needs.

For me, I really wouldn't do any of the three, mostly because of my daily 70 mile commute.

While the Leaf could make it on a single charge, what happens if I don't get a full charge or if I use accessories (A/C) in the summer or worse A/C, Heater, lights, wipers in a cool winter storm (A/C for defogging windows)? Would my 100 mile range now be perilously close to 70 miles in a cold, windy drive home with standing water on the ground? I'd rather not chance it. On the weekends, this car could be pure gold.

A Volt could work, but after my 40 miles or so of Electric fun, I've got another 30 miles of gas driving. Worse, that 30 miles will be in some stop and go, losing the best part of electric driving. I'm leery of GM's quality. Again, for my shorter weekend trips, this car would be great!

A plug in Prius could work, but again, my long commute wouldn't make having the plug in worth it. On the weekends, it would be great as many of my trips are 10 miles or less (roundtrip) and my tank mileage would be spared the weekend beat down that it currently takes.

Of all of them, I'd rather have the Prius, because after the charge is gone, I'd still have the fuel efficiency of a Prius (well, 98% of it anyhow).

 

well the wrong thing is to look at Prius PHV vs Prius II... because it is a lot more comparable to III and IV, and then makes a lot of sense.

Personally, lets say it was stripped model like II, and 2k cheaper... it would still be very expensive car compared to 5 year old Yaris sedan. When you spend >25k on a car, you are buying a lot of things, one of them is luxury... so I for one, would spend that extra 2k on a lot of these luxury features like entune.

If you dont have money, there is no point of buying brand new PHEV. There is no way you will be able to ever justify it... not in 2011.... maybe in 10-15 years.

Maybe not even then... looking at Prius prices in 10 years, they didnt really go down, did they? Rather you got a lot more of a car for same money. So I expect that in Prius G4, you will get 20-30 miles of range, and in G5 maybe even 50, all for similar price.

But I dont expect some radical changes because history shows that nothing happens that fast.

 

I don't know. Most people drive between 12k and 15k miles per year. 15,000 miles per year, at 50 mpg amounts to $1000 dollars a year in gas regardless of what kind of prius you are currently driving, based on $3.60 a gallon. Assume you never fill up the tank on a PiP Prius(unlikely), it would take 4 years to recoup the difference between that($30k base price according to other posters, w/ the tax credits in mind) and a regular Prius priced at $26k. Assuming you use half of your 15k miles per year in all-electric mode, the payback period becomes 7 years. Assume 25% of your use is all-electric, the payback period is 15 years. This doesn't include the fact that you are buying electricity to fuel the car now. Will you make your money back in saved fuel costs? That all depends on how long you intend to keep the vehicle.
And keep in mind, there is already a premium for going to a hybrid in the first place, so add on another 5 years to these figures if you want to compare going from combustion to plug-in hybrid.

 

Hahaha gas for $3.60/gal, I'd love to get in on that.
$30k isn't some mythical price based on other posters, it's the price you pay after the federal tax rebate. And a post just 4 posts above yours (!) has already shown that the price difference is $3k.
So at $4/gal gas, which will most likely go up even more in the next few years, you recoup that price difference in 37,500 miles (again, assuming constant gas prices, which is a huge fallacy imho). And, of course, after those 37k miles, you're saving money.
Of course in California you can cut that number in half, and when you factor in HOV lane access (and reduced tolls if you're in the Bay area), the premium becomes much less of a premium. Now take a guess as to what percentage of these cars will be sold in CA and the pricing becomes a no-brainer.
Don't forget, Toyota isn't a charity.

 

Anyone else find it humorous that people are insisting on comparing the Prius PHEV to the Prius II the same way other people insist on comparing the Prius II to the Corolla?