Thinking of going veggie, need some advice??

"What exactly is the difference between plant foods 'lacking' certain amino acids and being 'unbalanced.' Talk about veg*n spin! "

Simple really. "lacking" means a single plant protein cannot be a sole source of AA for protein synthesis in the human.
"unbalanced" means decreased efficiency in protein synthesis.

It is all the difference in the world.

Regarding RDA, you obviously have no clue how those numbers are come up with. I am not trying to convince you as a vegan, but am telling you as a physician with a good understanding of human biochemistry and nutrition that your pseudo-science has no merit.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Apr 9 2007, 08:38 AM) [snapback]420277[/snapback]</div>

I agree.

Cattle and other large domesticated herbivores are REQUIRED to manage grasslands and some savannas properly after the removal of natural historic grazers like Bison and Elk. There is a simple science that governs the use of cattle to manage a grassland but it is undeniable that they are required unless we decide to put Bison and Elk back onto the open range. There is also the argument that a properly run polyculture farm can produce more healthy food (without outsourced inputs like fertilizer) than any monoculture crop. So eating meat is not so evil if the raising and managment of the organism is done with wisdom and care.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(alaskaprius @ Apr 9 2007, 01:07 AM) [snapback]420129[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, I was taking Spirulina a while back. So far as animal dairy to obtain B12, one has to be careful with that as it leaches (at least that's what I've heard) calcium from bone. That's not a perfect system either. I've always thought it best to have nutritional intake in balance. I don't appreciate the concept of relying on only one source. There are two many foods that can inhibit (or leach) the nutrients of other foods in/from the body.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Apr 8 2007, 07:35 PM) [snapback]419998[/snapback]</div>

Does this include the gorillas and other large apes? (including many varieties of homo sapiens)

A few years ago I visted a small private zoo in which some gorillas were kept in an open space like a walled garden. I have retained an image of a ferocious-looking male gorilla sitting quietly on the branch of a tree gently picking off single leaves and munching them slowly with a contemplative look on his face. Perhaps he was thinking smugly about the advantages of being a vegetarian against the caged lions who paced about waiting for their next meal in a small cage near his enclosure.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 8 2007, 07:46 PM) [snapback]420005[/snapback]</div>

Don't forget pigs! They are the third major omnivore on the planet after humans and rats.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Apr 8 2007, 08:53 PM) [snapback]420008[/snapback]</div>

Yeah thats it, eat plenty of beans they are full of protine but then again so does Soy. With Soy you dont have the gassious cloud escaping from your anus when out in public or at parties.... Unless you do like the South Park episode on the fart sniffing Prius owners.. You know rip one and bend ofer and sniff, you dont want that in the Ozone... :blink: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

South Park : Fun With Veal

Ms. Choksondik's fourth grade class goes on a field trip to a farm, where they discover that veal is made of baby cows. The boys are horrified (except Cartman), and decide to save the calves from becoming veal. Stan, Kyle and Butters convince Cartman to help them rescue the calves and bring them to Stan's house. When they are discovered by their parents, the boys barricade the door and hold Butters "hostage" until they are promised the calves will be safe.

The situation quickly escalates into a standoff between the boys (who are declared terrorists), and the police. The boys outwit an incompetent FBI negotiator, and manage to get their hands on heavy weaponry (including an ICBM), and negotiate for a cattle truck driven by Michael Dorn (in full Worf makeup, and he must address Cartman as "captain") to drive them to the airport so they can escape to Mexico. They also get the FDA to change the term for veal to "tortured baby cow meat" and almost get North and South Dakota. Meanwhile, they eat food smuggled in by Ms. Cartman, which contains beef jerky and fried chicken. While most of the group eagerly eats this food, Stan feels so strongly about the cause of saving the calves that he becomes fully vegetarian, and eats only apples. As a result, Stan comes down with a strange illness, and develops sores all over his face.

The boys are eventually outmaneuvered by the police, who capture the truck. The boys are ultimately successful, however, since at this point the rancher no longer wants his calves. Since veal is now known as "tortured baby cow meat", there is no longer a market for veal. Stan is now so sick that he must rushed to the hospital, and is confined to his hospital bed for two weeks. The doctor describes Stan's disease as Vaginitis, a condition which occurs when one stops eating meat, and which causes its victim to break out in vaginas all over his body. "If he had stopped eating meat completely," says the doctor, "he would've turned into one giant ######." The other boys get grounded, but happily go out for burgers with their parents before heading home.

....... you dont want Vaginitis do you?

 

Having read some of your other posts, I wouldn't be surprised if you actually equate meat eating with manliness. But you have a couple of things to fix: buy a hummer, as many guns as you can, and a confederate flag.

Then, stop being a P***y, and volunteer for Iraq. You will be doing your part in cleaning up the domestic gene pool.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Apr 9 2007, 10:46 AM) [snapback]420285[/snapback]</div>

Main Entry: 1lack
Pronunciation: 'lak
intransitive senses
1 : to be deficient or missing <time is lacking for a full explanation>
2 : to be short or have need of something <he will not lack for advisers>
transitive senses : to stand in need of : suffer from the absence or deficiency of <lack the necessities of life>

Note the Merriam-Webster definition of the word "lacking" as I used it. I didn't say "devoid."

Yes, one could certainly eat enough quinoa to cover all of their protein requirements. The question is, since there is a lacking (deficient) amino acid in the imbalanced protein profile, how much would you have to eat and at what excess caloric cost?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Apr 9 2007, 10:46 AM) [snapback]420285[/snapback]</div>

Oh really? The RDA's are generally set at approximately 50% over absolute minimum daily requirements to prevent malnourishment diseases such as rickets and scurvy. A bowl of cereal OR one egg OR a couple glasses of milk a WEEK as you assert is not ever going to cover minimum human nutrient needs. That you assert such only clearlydemonstrates who is the follower of 'pseudo-science.' If other veg*ns here agree with this nonsence, I'd certainly like to see that.

I can only say that I am everso thankful not to be subject to such nutritional quackery from my personal physician.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 9 2007, 12:04 PM) [snapback]420336[/snapback]</div>

With posts such as yours, you're likely to get much less "Vaginitis" than you may wish.

This thread has truly digressed.

Jesart, I think that I can offer the following summation on behalf of those who follow a vegetarian diet, or those with an open, educated mind about the diet, and of the nutritional variances between vegetarianism and a meat based diet. Engaging in a vegetarian lifestyle can improve your health, our environment and animal welfare. Opting to only decrease your meat consumption, and not eliminate it, will be of corresponding benefit as well. So far as your health is concerned, ensure that your knowledgeable about the nutritional requirements of vegetarians. If you cover this base, you can lead a healthy life and be confident that you're imposing a lightened demand on our resources and on the planet and on our furry and feathered friends.

If you try the vegetarian diet and cannot see it through, you do have options as it relates to the animal abuses that disturb you. You can purchase free range chicken and eggs (these chickens aren't caged up in tight quarters with their beaks chopped off) and meat products from grass fed sources (these cows don't require a hose jammed down their throat to alleviate gassy build up from an improper corn diet). I don't known this to be sure, but I'm guessing that Whole Foods Market animal sources are treated and killed more humanely than conventionally grown beef. In the latter, even used "downed" and aged cows are used in their manufacture. They just drag or bull doze these poor cows to the slaughter line. Given the overall philosophy of Whole Foods, I'm quite sure you can find consciously raised meat there. It'll just cost you more money for this option.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 9 2007, 12:04 PM) [snapback]420336[/snapback]</div>

With posts such as yours, you're likely to get much less "Vaginitis" than you may wish.

This thread has truly digressed.

Jesart, I think that I can offer the following summation on behalf of those who follow a vegetarian diet, or those with an open, educated mind about the diet, and of the nutritional variances between vegetarianism and a meat based diet. Engaging in a vegetarian lifestyle can improve your health, our environment and animal welfare. Opting to only decrease your meat consumption, and not eliminate it, will be of corresponding benefit as well. So far as your health is concerned, ensure that your knowledgeable about the nutritional requirements of vegetarians. If you cover this base, you can lead a healthy life and be confident that you're imposing a lightened demand on our resources and on the planet and on our furry and feathered friends.

If you try the vegetarian diet and cannot see it through, you do have options as it relates to the animal abuses that disturb you. You can purchase free range chicken and eggs (these chickens aren't caged up in tight quarters with their beaks chopped off) and meat products from grass fed sources (these cows don't require a hose jammed down their throat to alleviate gassy build up from an improper corn diet). I don't known this to be sure, but I'm guessing that Whole Foods Market animal sources are treated and killed more humanely than conventionally grown beef. In the latter, even used "downed" and aged cows are used in their manufacture. They just drag or bull doze these poor cows to the slaughter line. Given the overall philosophy of Whole Foods, I'm quite sure you can find consciously raised meat there. It'll just cost you more money for this option.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 9 2007, 12:04 PM) [snapback]420336[/snapback]</div>

With posts such as yours, you're likely to get much less "Vaginitis" than you may wish.

This thread has truly digressed.

Jesart, I think that I can offer the following summation on behalf of those who follow a vegetarian diet, or those with an open, educated mind about the diet, and of the nutritional variances between vegetarianism and a meat based diet. Engaging in a vegetarian lifestyle can improve your health, our environment and animal welfare. Opting to only decrease your meat consumption, and not eliminate it, will be of corresponding benefit as well. So far as your health is concerned, ensure that your knowledgeable about the nutritional requirements of vegetarians. If you cover this base, you can lead a healthy life and be confident that you're imposing a lightened demand on our resources and on the planet and on our furry and feathered friends.

If you try the vegetarian diet and cannot see it through, you do have options as it relates to the animal abuses that disturb you. You can purchase free range chicken and eggs (these chickens aren't caged up in tight quarters with their beaks chopped off) and meat products from grass fed sources (these cows don't require a hose jammed down their throat to alleviate gassy build up from an improper corn diet). I don't known this to be sure, but I'm guessing that Whole Foods Market animal sources are treated and killed more humanely than conventionally grown beef. In the latter, even used "downed" and aged cows are used in their manufacture. They just drag or bull doze these poor cows to the slaughter line. Given the overall philosophy of Whole Foods, I'm quite sure you can find consciously raised meat there. It'll just cost you more money for this option.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Oxo @ Apr 9 2007, 11:40 AM) [snapback]420315[/snapback]</div>

What Can the Diet of Gorillas Tell Us About a Healthy Diet for Humans?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Apr 9 2007, 10:30 AM) [snapback]420267[/snapback]</div>

"Humans learned to use fire, to any extent, in the Paleolithic age. Cooking certainly was necessary, because grains cannot be eaten raw. It is also interesting to note that when humans began eating a diet high in grains, the incidence of tooth decay increased considerably. Tooth decay increased dramatically when refined grains (wheat and rice) became staple diets for a large percentage of the world's population."

Fortunately, scientists can now do forensic analysis on tooth composition to determine a profile of nutrient intake, particularly in the childhood years. It is clear and no surprise that the hunter/gatherers who ate large quantities of meat, if not exclusively, also consistently have the best dental conditions. This is also comparable to and consistant with the excellent dental conditions of modern primary meat-eaters such as the Inuit and the Massai.

Only modern dental care of the past 50 years or so has finally mitigated to a reasonable degree, the dental health defects caused by the unnatural grain-based agricultural human diet.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Apr 9 2007, 02:43 PM) [snapback]420382[/snapback]</div>

Where is that quote from? I'm curious how far back in time they are going. Do they include the diets of gatherers that ate a naturally occuring variety of grains like coastal and central valley native americans did? Just curious.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Apr 9 2007, 03:52 PM) [snapback]420352[/snapback]</div>

I equate eating meat with being a human. I equate being a vegetarian with either a) someone with a health problem, or B) someone with some moral dillemma, or c) religion

Being in good health, having a clear concious regarding eating meat, and religion not being a factor in my diet.. I eat meat.

I really enjoy your personal attack though, and implying that those in Iraq are simply cleaning up the domestic gene pool. It is very forthcoming of you to discredit those whom are serving in the armed forces.

SSimon.. my post from South Park was clearly a joke.. Besides... I don't want to have any relations with some sickly little pale vegetarian anyway.. Vegetarian women = ugly... that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Vegetarians = sickly little snobbish people with a childish mentality.. Vegans are the worse.

You simply cannot argue that many of those whom are vegetarians don't exactly look healthy. Out of the few veggie heads I know.. only like 1/4th of them look like a normal person.. the rest are pot smoking, skinny little nerds.

So.. how many athletes are vegetarian? Not many... and there is a damn good reason why.

I cannot stand going out to eat with vegetarians.. they're such picky little bitches.

I don't care if I offend any of you vegetarians.. I'm entlitled to my opinion that unless you require a vegetarian diet, you're just an attention whore that somehow thinks your insignificant diet change is going to "save the planet"...

EricGO .. what have YOU done to serve your country or community? I've done PLENTY. My previous employment was with a Police department.. I volunteer for Coats of Kids and Toys for Tots.. So lets se.. Public Service and volunteering for children. Go rub on some more patcholi and smoke your dope, kid.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hycamguy07 @ Apr 9 2007, 11:55 AM) [snapback]420330[/snapback]</div>

I also read that women that consume large amounts of soy whilst pregnant have a much higher chance of having a hermie baby due to all the estrogen..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Apr 9 2007, 05:04 PM) [snapback]420401[/snapback]</div>

The quote is from the article I linked regarding the gorilla vs. human diet.

I'm not arguing whether some hunter/gatherers ate some grains. They did. But, their diet was not based on grain. And I see nothing wrong with including 100% whole-grains in the modern human diet, to the extent that the individual can tolerate them (I personally don't tolerate them very well in much more than a 2-ounce serving per day and interesting to note that wheat and dairy comprise the top 2 dietary allergies/intolerances). The point I'm trying to make is the nutritional deficiencies that results from the shift in human diet to a grain-based diet that generally occured with the advent agriculture practice, about 10,000 years ago.

 

dsynch,

There is too much ugliness in that last post. Shouldn't you try to avoid such things according to the teachings you attempt to practice? I'm not trying to school you, I am simply trying to remind or admonish you.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Apr 9 2007, 03:15 PM) [snapback]420416[/snapback]</div>

Ok, I see your point then. Most of my reading has stated that the average California native american ate a nice mixture of grains, acorns, roots and tubers, shoots, and various meats.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RinMI @ Apr 9 2007, 10:36 AM) [snapback]420276[/snapback]</div>

It's not simply about 'personal preference', since the choice of what we eat makes a huge difference in the effects it has on other beings/the environment (unlike the choice between Yukon Gold vs. Redskin potatoes, which is purely personal preference). Just like the choice of vehicle is not simply 'personal preference' (otherwise we could all just drive Hummers or whatever other gas-guzzler we like).

While this whole discussion might not change anybody's viewpoint, it is just as effective/ineffective as trying to convince a Hummer-driver about the virtues of driving a Prius. Is it worth it to even 'try' to explain why driving a Prius might be 'better' than driving a Hummer.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Apr 9 2007, 05:17 PM) [snapback]420418[/snapback]</div>

Buddy, I've always liked you. You're well rounded and intelligent.

Intelligent enough to realize that I have an opinion and I'll voice it. Some people may not like it, and that is their problem. I'll reiterate my opinion = Vegetarians/Vegans are one of the ugliest, most annoying group of people I've had the displeasure of conversing with. Sorry.

Vegetarians are the most annoying people to be around.. I was going to say "Even more annoying than being around a bunch of liberals" .. but then I realized most vegetarians probably are liberal.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 9 2007, 03:33 PM) [snapback]420429[/snapback]</div>

I completely understand. I am trying to limit my negativity in this world and seeing your post reminded me of something I would say depending on the item of discussion and I winced knowing I should try to do better. It was a reminder for me and helpful so I was just trying to return the favor my friend.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 9 2007, 05:11 PM) [snapback]420405[/snapback]</div>

You deduce and generalize all of that based on the lack of one component from one's diet and one's diet alone?

Here's a link of athletes that are engaged in a vegetarian lifestyle. These individuals range from 6 time winner of the Ironman, Heisman trophy winner, world record holder of the 24 hour triathalon and 4 time Mr. Universe. In your statement about athletes, I think you've probably neglected to realize that the percentage of vegetarians world wide is lesser than those with a conventional diet. Probably too, the percentages of athletes with a vegetarian diet will be lower than those with a conventional diet. Based on the catagories of accomplishments of these vegetarian athletes, strength and endurance are not impaired. I know that you've stated that your opinions won't change, and that's fine. But, do you need to incorporate such a harsh method in the translation and communication of your beliefs? You've just called me ugly, picky, sickly, snobbish with a childish mentality all solely for the reason that I don't ingest animal.

http://www.alphaomegafood.com/vegetarian_athletes.htm

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Apr 9 2007, 05:45 PM) [snapback]420443[/snapback]</div>

Thank you for reminding me to try to be nice to everyone. I just got kind of set off when some EricGo punk guy tells me I should join the military and go to Iraq to thin out the gene pool..

or when some Euro-chick tells me I probably don't get too much "vaginitis" because I'm not a fan of vegetarians..

Thats like telling me I won't get to eat Poo for making fun of poo... I don't want poo.. I don't want vegetarian wimmens.. they're skinny and oooogly! :lol:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Apr 9 2007, 05:48 PM) [snapback]420445[/snapback]</div>

I don't know what you look like.. you could be in that 1/4th percentile I was talking about.. the vegetarians that don't think they're better than everyone else.. the ones that aren't picky little assholes that you can't go out to dinner with at a nice restaurant because "they aren't vegetarian friendly".. The ones that don't go out of their way to tell you you're a bad person and that the poor animals are treated cruely. Maybe you're in that 1/4th percent that doesn't give the evil eye to people across the room for ordering a big nice person steak. Maybe.. just maybe you have some meat on your bones and don't look like an AIDS or Cancer patient. I'm not saying one way or the other.. Maybe you beat the odds.

 

Jesart- are you sorry you asked?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Apr 9 2007, 05:32 PM) [snapback]420379[/snapback]</div>

That's pretty much how I eat. I was never able to make the transition to vegetarianism, but I have greatly reduced the amount of meat that I eat. I buy, as much as possible, only grass-fed beef and buffalo and free-range poultry. Fortunately, at least some times during the year, a farm on the island that I live on sells grass-fed beef and lamb that they raise. And living on the coast, I could never give up seafood.