THE TRUCK!

Toyota is in disagreement with your notion that the Bz4 will EVER be competitive ....

Toyota Said To Develop EV-Only Platform Just As CEO Steps Down

At least Toyota is realizing that they can't compete in the ev markrt with a Frankenstein Style reworked ev sorta architecture.

You ARE kidding right? Ford is the most popular pickup & it's middle of the road F250 is similarly priced even when it's not by far optioned out .... that doesn't even start to look at the higher prices of the f-350.

View attachment 250648

That linked photo shows typical ford pricing.
We presently charge our plugins at 2.5¢ per mile. Our diesel 350 Sprinter chassis motorhome runs no less than 50¢ per mile fueling at $5/gallon. See the difference that electrical efficiency makes?
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This is to be seen. It did beat the F150, Rivian and even a F350 in the truck pull test. It also has more cargo space than a F150.

 

That was before this new interim stage emerged, where GM and VW are now facing production challenges, along with NACS rollout.

That falls well into their high-volume plans for the new platform a few years from now, using both next-gen motors & inverter and new batteries.

It really is a lot like history of the first Prius.

 

Agreed, that they are having to go back to the drawing board. By that time Tesla may have sold their first ¼ million cybertrucks .... and Toyota will have at that time, years down the road, a better vehicle that is a niche. I'm sure everybody here wishes them well with that endeavor. In any event, bringing up GM or Dodge or VW's similar EV birth pain woes is a deflection.
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That was planned all along. Just like with gen-2 Prius, their goal was for gen-1 to be the shakeout release. Lots of sales was unnecessary to achieve that. Toyota knew there was ample time available too. It has been a tortoise & hare race for many years now. Thankfully, not everyone is in denial of how long and what it takes for true change.

 

That is completely dissimilar because when the 2004 Prius came out it had no competition. Toyota waited so long to go EV that other manufactures are already on a different race - adding more models to their EV inventory. Sadly - Toyota has stumbled on their own starting block - on that already completed race - what with 1st - the wheels falling off the bz4x, then - realizing they need to completely scuttle the architecture that the bz4x is built on.
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Those of us who owned early (or any) Prius well remember the shade thrown on our decision. The critics never recognized that we just like cheap to operate, low vibration, and quiet cars. Cyber Truck early adopters (many with Prius experience,) don't really care what with or even if the loudest critics complain. But their 'transformer' playing grand kids will know.

I don't have requirements that an electric pickup would solve. But I do covet a Model X with 7 seats for a luxury shuttle service around town, to airports at Nashville and Birmingham, and the Mississippi casinos. Sorry, Atlanta would have higher 'hazard fees.'

Bob Wilson

 

So... you're going to pretend there was no pressure coming from Honda & Ford with hybrids from GM with their nonsense and VW with diesel and that "global warming" didn't have massive denial. Whatever. The pattern is obvious. Choosing not to see it is your loss, not mine.

 

Source: Here comes the Cybertruck, loaded with controversy - E&E News by POLITICO

The Cybertruck is an ugly and useless toy made by a narcissist for a bunch of fools. Or it’s a visionary master stroke that will sweep away today’s look-alike cars and usher in a new age of electric design.
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The rest of the article covers opinions both for and against Tesla. I'll leave them as fertilizer for those who have strong opinions either way. Personally, my 2019 Tesla Model 3 with +120,000 mi and 2017 BMW i3-REx with +60,000 mi are not for sale ... not even close.


Bob Wilson

 

i expect the cybertruck to go the way of other tesla models. early adopters, fan boys, the curious, the in crowd, etc.
as time goes by, and some on wall street short more stock and talk it down, if it proves to live up to even some of the hype, sales will flow from there, tesla will keep making improvements, and more sales will continue.
if there are problems, they will be addressed, and if they prove better than what legacy mfgs can come up with, even the coeboys and contractors will start buying them.

 

Which companies DO know their audience. Kia Hyundai are in the process of shuttering ice production and converting a factory to EV production. Don't they know their audience?
Hyundai converts core Kia plant to mass-produce EV models.
And yet Toyota Volkswagen GM and Ford slow EV production - even as they say nobody wants them?
In reality - it would appear nobody wants to pay high prices for mediocre products. Worldwide, companies like byd Tesla & Kia/Hyundai are eating the other's lunch. So - manufactures answer slow EV sales by claiming nobody wants them. Is it any wonder the little i3 costing $60,000 with with a short range wouldn't sell? That doesn't answer how the Camry can be outsold by the model 3. Same w/ midel Y sales. It's evident who really does & doesn't know their audience.
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Toyota's profits rise 78% on strong sales as the parts crunch eases (techxplore.com)

Toyota Hikes Annual Forecast As First-half Net Profit Doubles | Barron's (barrons.com)

Toyota Profit Tops Estimates, Sending Shares to All-Time High - Bloomberg

The Toyota Camry Is Easily Outselling Every Other Car This Year (motorbiscuit.com)

Sometimes several deep beaths into a paper bag will settle down a persons nerves, overreactions, hyperbole and calm a person back down.

 

How odd - that same linked article goes & links in other article that talks about Toyota killing off the Camry

The Toyota Camry Sedan Is Dead in Japan After 43 Years of Limited Sales

It's possible to reconcile the differences ... I think it makes sense when one considers that claiming Camry is the best seller - then states an exception. That exception being the small SUV formats which best the Camry now
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That has nothing whatsoever to do with what the quote was about.

 

That is a apples/oranges comparison. At $3.25/g my Prius fuel costs about 6 cents/mile. My current cost for Electricity in CT is 17 cents per KW-H and at 300 watt hours/mile that's 5.7 cents/mile for an EV (assuming 90% charging efficiency) so there is very little difference in fuel costs between a good hybrid and and an efficient EV.

Of course you could charge your EV from a solar roof at home, but that has a high capital cost. There is also the issue of elevated EV charging costs on the road as well as the usual discussion of charging time vs gasoline fueling time on the road. Besides, my 2020 Prius AWDe cost me $30k new. Where can I find a good EV with reasonable range for $30k?

JeffD

 

.... and for us, for 2 plugins & for the house - it amortized after year 6.
You can't do that burning gas. Not unless you build a carcinogenic filthy refinery in your back yard.
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Mention of "efficient EV" on this particular discussion thread is ironic. Notice how several days after the reveal, we still know nothing at all about how much electricity Cybertruck consumes.... but we all already know it will be a guzzler... which has been a topic of trouble for those portraying all BEV as the answer to all of our problems. That absolute should be a red-flag.

Embracing an electricity-guzzler without good cause is the corner Tesla enthusiasts have backed themselves into. Just like with Two-Mode and Voltec rollouts, they are attempting the same "trickle down" arguments. That history has proven it to be a disastrous approach. We also know Tesla's leader has shown no concern for Innovator's Dilemma. It's a recipe for failure. You can't just pursue high-profit vehicles. It's difficult to argue the hype isn't short-term too, with such a high price.

47 MPGe combined ' 72 kWh/100mi ' 1.39 mi/kWh = AWD GMC Hummer EV
68 MPGe combined ' 49 kWh/100mi ' 2.02 mi/kWh = 4WD Ford F-150 Lightning
69 MPGe combined ' 49 kWh/100mi ' 2.04 mi/kWh = AWD Rivian RS1

I have heard endless claims of bZ4X being inefficient, despite delivering significantly better numbers. In the summer, seeing real-world efficiency numbers starting with a 4 was quite common. Every now & then, I would see over 5.0 mi/kWh. Now at the start of winter, efficiency has dropped to 2.8 mi/kWh. Any bet on what we'll see from Cybertruck... or will that topic conveniently be omitted in favor of focus on range instead?

 

if only your black & white world actually existed. Talk of missing the boat - each cybertruck that takes a Tacoma off the road will be a world of good for our ever decreasing fossil fuel supplies as well as the environment.
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And would be better if/when The Truck costs closer to $40k. The idea is to make it so attractive that someone with an old truck could afford to scrap their pre-emissions regulations truck and buy The Truck or its equivalent.

 

don't be so impatient. look what has happened to the model 3 over the years. no one is going to come out with a 40k electric pick up