The head of the Air Resources Board on her beloved Mirai

I've never read that - and have not found data to support fleets of hydrogen cars going for a decade or more. Can you provide a link? In fact, the tanks must be $h|t canned at 10 years - and
Design News - Guest Blogs - Danger: When Hydrogen Embrittlement Strikes
hydrogen embrittlement (collaterally, leaks) will always be an issue - especially approaching the decade mark. On the other hand, what few hundred gen1 RAV4 EV's left on the road that Toyota didn't Crush - some of which were built in the 1990s, are still rolling along. Some of those on original nickel-metal-hydride traction packs with over 100,000 miles. And of course many of the 12 and 14 year old Prius cars are running on original packs at 300 + thousand miles. That would mean the hydrogen car might have to run a million miles to be 5 times better.

the flip side of that is when you're traveling around Las Vegas and it's well over 100 - you now have to create electricity just to cool that big heat source - as well as your passengers. As far as FC's being a flow battery, the fuel cells' cost is brought down by making it smaller, and using a traditional battery pack to supplement energy demands that the smaller stacks can't meet. How big or small that traditional pack is will determine on how small - large - expensive the fuel stack is.
.

 

can you fit a fuel cell in your cell phone?

 

Maybe in 10 years?

World’s Smallest Fuel Cell | TFOT
The refrigerator sized ones will power your phone - but you'll need a much bigger phone to hold it.
I'd advised sticking with a wall charger. Works for my car
.

 

Refrigerator sized one needed for a cell phone ? When a suitcase sized one runs a car ?

And for you conspiracy theorists early in the thread, I have always spelled my name with a "k" :-P

 

So what's March 31 ? Tesla Model 3 ?

 

(not a 1%er ;-) )

No stations open in San Diego County yet (where I live) but 8 open in LA/OC and 4 open in NorCal: Coalinga (Harris Ranch near the Tesla Supercharger), San Jose, Sacramento and South San Francisco (near airport). So I will be able to drive up the state for meetings in Fresno (through Coalinga), San Francisco and Sacramento if I want to (heading to Fresno next weekend). I work in OC and have 3 stations within a few miles of my office. I've used 5 stations in LA/OC so far, all with no problems.

 

Yes, March 31st Tesla Model 3 in-store reservations. April 1st, online will be open. $1000 per reservation.

 

Cool, the more the merrier

 

I'm still waiting to hear the details for the in-store reservations. From what I was able to find online the unveiling event is March 31st in the evening. Would that mean that reservations would open up at night on March 31st? Or would they open reservations before the unveiling event? I assume we'll find out more details in the next 2 weeks.

 

This thread is not off topic!

 

Not certain if I missed a gag - but I'll articulate. Refridgerator sized for (all) home use . . . then you can plug your phone into your home's 120v receptacles to charge your phone. But you're right ... you could use the suit case one in the Mirai & plug the phone into the car - only thing is - the refrigerator sized one for a house will cost as much as the subsidized Mirai. And since the home version can run on your plumbed in natural gas - yea ... it's still more of a bargain to use the refrigerator sized one.

Thank you Mr thread nazi .... but CARB's transportation decisions are off topic too, so its par for the course

.

 

maybe one of you 'experts' can give us a rundown on the 'good' carb people, and the 'bad'. from a 3,000 mile perspective, it all looks good, and i'd be more than happy vs the other 49 states.

 

Yeah I've never mentioned the fueling system or storage. Just the fuel cells. I used to work on battery reliability for NASA so I had my hands on fuel cell reliability data as well as battery reliability data. Most of the data is of course proprietary and not really fit for human consumption. And of course the context meant everything. The fact that with batteries they are their own storage so storage for fuels cells is not counted as a reliability failure. Since a fuel cell has no inherent storage, so there is no inherent failure associated with that aspect. Also don't forget batteries are made up cells with connectors so there are failures associated with those as well (I remember reading an article someone on this forum posted about somebody fixing his battery by replacing a few corroded connectors between packs). A Fuel Cell system has discrete (simple) components that in Toyota's eyes are a much easier target to concentrate on as far as reliability. They can turn their attention to each part and concentrate on fixing the issues or creating improvements with that part. On that point you nor I are going to change their mind. Having said that, there is something to be said for integration on a really small level quite literally done millions of times over and over on a mechanized manufacturing line as are done with batteries.

Which is why I mentioned the Northeast and North. Also a fuel cell stack is made smaller by creating thinner lattices in an exact pattern exposing more surface area to help with recombination of the oxygen and hydrogen fuel. The thinner lattices still utilize a considerable amount of precious metals (mostly platinum and/or palladium). It is a flow battery and there is somewhat of a delay between when the fuel flows and electricity is created. The addition of a battery with its instantaneous power mitigates this somewhat.

 

hmm, battery reliability involving NASA would be absolutely worst case scenario with temperate extremes and G forces. I'm glad we don't have to defy gravity or travel in any vacuums while in our road vehicles (the flying car is still MIA).

 

Yep model 3 reveal and deposits. It won't ship to customers until 2017, and won't be available unless stuffed with expensive options until 2018, but it will get tens of thousands of deposits quickly.

 

skewz me? someone's pretending everything is going to plan? Who was it that started a thread - in effect claiming as some kind of sick victory; "weee !! look at all the 'mobile-hydrogen' stations Toyota has brought on line !! " Translation; CARB fails miserable again building stations, so Toyota increases pollution via diesel trucks hauling hydrogen in, so the poor slobs driving hydrogen won't be stranded.

Thermochemical? it's the way to go? Maybe you forgot why it's NOT the way to go? Like it's because it's still theoretical?

Tesla chargers already refill cars in less time than you can wolf down lunch. As for 300+ miles range (never mind the 400 mile roadster upgrade) - better guess again;
Tesla about to release a 100kWh Traction Pack? | PriusChat
at which time, the Tesla will have available more range than the Mirai ... which doesn't have, nor will it ever get its trillion dollar - C02-natural gas powered nationwide infrastructure. Similarly, I dread to think of the mountains of Australian coal ash that'll be created if Toyota continues it's so-called 'clean' plan to distill hydrogen for it's own nation, while it dirties another.

in deed
.

 

CSP requires real estate, and is limited in locations where it is efficient or even work. Southern California should work for it, but I have heard no plans for such a plant being build, or any type of central renewable hydrogen plant.

The renewable hydrogen currently planned in California will be made on site at the station. For those not near a source of bio-methane, that means electrolysis. Since there is nothing else available on the market.

 

Since production of the Tesla Model 3 isn't starting until late 2017, and initial production goes to interested previous Tesla Owners, if you want one I guess for you mid to late 2018 can't get here soon enough ) I might even be ready for a new car by then (but not one with only 200 mile range)

 

Superchargers.

And to quote myself in another thread: "Let me know when a FCV can actually make it to Moab without using a flatbed truck and a diesel tanker full of fracked hydrogen". Sustainable transport. right.

Tell my why a FCV even NEEDS 300 miles of range when there doesn't seem to be a plan to actually allow for long-distance travel? <shakes head>