The HATE Thread

The events happened. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 or Madrid, and had the full backing of the U.S.A. when it attacked the Kurds, using American weapons and American chemicals. Hussein and bin Laden were mortal enemies. What kind of demented logic justifies invading the wrong country??? Answer: the same kind of irrational rage that lashes out against your wife because your boss chewed you out. Our leaders are not only morons and megalomaniacs, they are insane.

 

I cannot help but notice that the strongest supporters of torture are people who strongly identify themselves as christians.

Any insight why ?

 

simple. history repeating itself. over, and over, and over, and over...

 

I do not follow you.
I am well aware of the bloody history of the Church, but that is not the same thing as individuals. I wouldn't be surprised if the Church tortured more of it's own adherents than 'infidels'. Certainly true if you include christian type A torturing christian type B.

 

The post that I quoted claimed that the Ohio Patriot Act did not include such a provision. I was pointing out an inaccuracy in that post.

I'm surprised to hear that this has been the law in Ohio for years -- I know there are laws in some states that make it a crime for people suspected of committing crimes to identify themselves, but this is the first time I've heard of a law that makes it a crime for someone who is not suspected of any wrongdoing to refuse to identify himself.

 

I'll take a crack at that. Jesus was a Jewish Apocalyptacist preacher who advocated radical pacifism, repentence, love of god, neighbor, and enemy, and selling all your goods and giving the money to the poor. He believed the apocalypse was imminent. When it did not come, his followers had to make adjustments. They declared him to be god, and declared that the path to salvation was belief in him. This was a change from his own teachings, as he had never made belief in himself a condition. Paul came along and basically turned most of Jesus's teachings on their head, and then the Romans converted and made Jesus's name the standard under which to wage war.

With that, there was no longer anything left of Jesus in Christianity.

Non-Christians are confused by how Christians can act so antithetically to everything Jesus taught. They hoard wealth, they wage war, they excoriate the poor. The explanation is that Christianity never had anything to do with Jesus's teachings.

To be fair, there are a small number of Christians who live the word of Jesus, and there are liberal christian denominations that denounce torture and the death penalty, and even in some cases war. But conservative Christians believe that they are the chosen people of god, that their belief in Jesus makes them special, and that they have not only the right but the obligation to destroy everyone who opposes them. And in the tradition of their faith, any and all methods are considered legitimate. After all, they are (in their own view!) god's warriers.

The Catholic Church only stopped burning people at the stake when it lost the political power to do so. Is it any wonder that Christians with unlimited political power return to their ancestral methods?

George Bernard Shaw said that the only thing wrong with Christianity is that it's never been tried. The answer to your question is that the people who most strongly identify themselves as Christians, and who most strongly insist that Christianity is the only true religion, are the ones who actually believe in it the least. That's my opinion, anyway.

 

I am not talking about the Ohio Patriot Act6...I am talking about the fact that failing to report a felony is a crime and certain crimes, i.e. molestation of a child, must be reported as well. If you are suspected of this crime...then you must ID yourself to police. If people who are suspected of a crime are not required to say who they are...it is worthless.

So, again, what is wrong with requiring someone who has information about a terrorist act, when confronted by police, being required to ID themselves?

 

The problem is abuse of police power when a cop SAYS he "suspects" you of having information, or he "suspects" you of a crime, as an excuse to harass you. Right now, our government is claiming it has the right to torture people whenever it SUSPECTS them of terrorism or having information about terrorism. No court. No judge. No legal due process. Just the SUSPICION by a cop or other authority becomes the excuse to harass (at best) or to kill or torture (at worst) without any evidence.

That's pretty much the definition of a police state. That's how it was in the USSR. And that's the kind of power our government is asking for right now.

 

That's fine, but what I was talking about was a factual error in someone's post in this thread.

 

I hate people who wear dress shoes and socks with shorts. It's just not normal.

 

The police have had the right to arrest you, or even shoot you based on suspicion since the begginning of this country. I am using the same extreme logic you are using. You are thinking up the absolute worst case scenario and saying that is what will happen. I do not agree with your "torture" statement because I doubt we will agree on the definition of torture. Before "proof" there is always "suspicion". Otherwise, you would say we cannot (oh, the police I am speaking about here) arrest someone unless we have the proof to convict them.

My whole point was that the Patriot Act has simply brought to public attention what has existed for a long time and people are acting as if the sky is falling and I guess I want REAL examples, not theoretical ones that are NOW happening because of the patriot act.

Oh, and if you think we are anywhere NEAR a police state..you need to check some history. Such extreme statements only turn off people who would otherwise support your point.

 

It should read reasonable suspicion.

Happy New year.

 

The "Hate" thread veering into a heated discussion about religion and politics....how unexpected !!! lolz

sorry, Im going to dumb it down for a minute:

I hate it when I park near/under trees to get shade in the hot/sunny weather and birds crap on my beloved 2004 ! F*kn Birds !

 

I hate nothing - it is a waste of time and energy, it destroys the hater.

 

I did not say we were a police state. I said Bush et. al. are asking for police state powers. But a few things they have done, which smack of police-state tactics:

Kidnapping people off the streets in foreign countries, without any due process, and sending them to (previously) secret prisons, or to countries known to torture political opponents.

Spying on groups known to be peaceful and law-abiding opponents of administration policy.

Continuing to hold people in prison after admitting that those people are completely innocent.

And (though this is not new at all) stooping to the undignified tactic of claiming that America's biggest enemy are those law-abiding citizens of this country who vote for the other party.

Happy new year everybody. I'm going to bed.

 

I try not to hate, it takes too much energy and gives nothing back but misery.

 

Our posts were almost identical, imntacrook. C'mon, let's sing it...We are the world....we are the childrennnnnnnn...