The Gulf Coast (Katrina Revisited)

I can clearly see that Godiva wants all our tax dollars spent to protect and or rebuild the new orleans area. for some reason, spare no expense and it's all up to the federal government to do it all.

To me that's crazy talk. The city should not be rebuilt, and our government should have gone in with a rescue mission after the initial hit, but none of the money to rebuild should have been spent. There are a lot of stupid places to build stuff, homes and really dumb places to live. New Orleans is one of them. Move somewhere else if you want to be safe from storm surges. Build somewhere else if you don't want to risk your junk being ruined by water next time. If you feel you have an opportunity to make a life and a living by building a house in the ocean, go for it, but the US taxpayers are not your insurance company.

If you lived through the storm, great. Now is a time to make a better choice for the future. If your stuff is wrecked, we are sorry to hear of your loss, bad things happen to people all the time. Buy insurance next time. If the insurance companies won't insure your home in the ocean, take that as a sign that thinking people have done the math. It's not a good gamble.

Now, on to the Godiva question. What have you personally done for the hurricane ravaged area? You really got a hankering for all of us to pitch in with cost being no barrier. Let's assume our combined response is not up to your liking, what have you done to help? Have you taken 100% of your vacation to go there to work on projects at your own expense? Did you donate money beyond your ability initially and now continue to donate to maximum capacity while conserving in every possible way in life in order to be able to make your donations greater? I have no idea what you've done in this area, but I expect a hostile response because typically when I ask social liberals what they personally have done toward great social need, they typically have done nothing personally and to be questioned about their ACTUAL committment to the project really makes them mad. So, what have you done and what do you continue to do?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 21 2006, 11:20 PM) [snapback]307300[/snapback]</div>

Well, you certainly took that and ran with it!!

Persistent building in areas prone to flooding (in particular) is not smart and often commercially uninsurable. There is not reason why the federal govt. keep on bailing out these people who build in these areas. That was my point - I have no opinion about earthquakes, giants and dustclouds.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Aug 22 2006, 08:15 AM) [snapback]307403[/snapback]</div>

The first thing is not to support groups & parties that advocate war and aggression on foreign nations, parties that deny living wages to their citizens. Parties that tacitly condone illegal immigration by not acting against those interests that benefit the most from said immigration. Parties as corrupt and feckless as the GOP. Need I carry on? Handing out soup to indigents while our National Debt is blown out the water is like using your finger to plug gaps in the dyke wall - noble but insufficient.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(triphop @ Aug 22 2006, 09:05 AM) [snapback]307415[/snapback]</div>

But the problem in New Orleans would be simple to fix. Silly to keep building inadequate levies. They should just cart some rock from Colorado down there and raise the ground level above sea level.

 

i read somewhere that coastal land, the size of a football field every fifteen minutes!, is sinking beneath water in Louisiana. this phenomenon, they believe, is due to mismanagement and destruction of wetlands in the area. (by the way, bush isn't too keen on saving areas such as these) if the wetlands were saved, they could act as a buffer and diminish the strenght of the hurricanes as they reach inland. wetlands would also act to absorb significant amounts of water dumped by hurricanes and halt the flooding of neighboring areas. instead,they build levees to try to control water and end up destroying that which they're trying to save. these levees are, in part, responsible for the catastrophic effects of hurricanes such as katrina. the levees redirect sediment into the neighboring waters which isn't too good for land stability. the other cause, well that would be canals constructed for oil exploration/drilling. i guess we manage to continuously muck things up. when you look at all these facts, the government is certainly responsible to a large degree.

 

Godiva, please, you should know by now, that's pure BS, through and through. A total of six people died in that stadium during hurricane Katrina. Of those, four died of natural causes, one overdosed, and another jumped to his death in an apparent suicide.

Are there an active/or past investigations for the so called murders and rapes? None that I am aware of at present or past for that matter. Please point us to them. I would also like more information of the starvation and dehydration deaths too...

Jeez, give me a break...

Rick

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Aug 22 2006, 07:15 AM) [snapback]307403[/snapback]</div>

No. I think there should be a balance.

Unlike some who think the poor and infirm brought it on themselves and should be left to fend for themselves. And if they can't pull themselves up by their bootstraps, let them die. Survival of the fittest.

America is supposed to be the most powerful country in the world; the RICHEST country in the world. OUr citizens deserve better than this. Not just the ones that can pay.

The callous indifference makes me want to heave.

 

People get upset with you for not understanding the war in Iraq....their argument is that we're there to better their civilians lives, get rid of a leader inflicting atrocities. When our government turns their back on its own citizens, that's understandable however. ironic.

 

Sorry, couldn't find anything from Faux News, the only authority to be believed on a thread like this.

L.A. Times

""We pee on the floor. We are like animals," said Taffany Smith, 25, as she cradled her 3-week-old son, Terry. In her right hand she carried a half-full bottle of formula provided by rescuers. Baby supplies are running low; one mother said she was given two diapers and told to scrape them off when they got dirty and use them again.

At least two people, including a child, have been raped. At least three people have died, including one man who jumped 50 feet to his death, saying he had nothing left to live for."

"There is no sanitation. The stench is overwhelming. The city's water supply, which had held up since Sunday, gave out early Wednesday, and toilets in the Superdome became inoperable and began to overflow.

"There is feces on the walls," said Bryan Hebert, 43, who arrived at the Superdome on Monday. "There is feces all over the place."

The Superdome is patrolled by more than 500 Louisiana National Guard troops, many of whom carry machine guns as sweaty, smelly people press against metal barricades that keep them from leaving, shouting as the soldiers pass by: "Hey! We need more water! We need help!"

Most refugees are given two 9-ounce bottles of water a day and two boxed meals: spaghetti, Thai chicken or jambalaya."

And of course the BBC is in cahoots with the Liberals to overthrow Amerika.

Oh yeah, I'm sure gonna stay in the DARK for five days in this "shelter" provided by authorities.

No official reports of rapes? Not that surprising since rape is a severely undereported crime. Apparently people will talk to reports but not the National Guard. Not that surprising after five days in hell.

I'm not going to waste any more time on "It was her own fault." Taking her daughter to the Superdome was such an attractive alternative.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 22 2006, 04:20 PM) [snapback]307741[/snapback]</div>

"BALANCE"! That's exactly where liberals and conservatives can argue till they are blue in the face. Your perception of the "balance" (perhaps more similar to Sweden's "cradle to grave" system) and mine (similar to the current US system) are as different as black and white. Both have their pros and cons.

If you do not think we have a "balance" per se, then look at Mexico's class differences. Essentially there is no government welfare system in place. Need a handout, then go to the church or find a charity. I think even some staunch conservatives in the US would think such a system is rather cruel. But people do manage in such poverty, although such an existence is bleak at best.

Our political system is really (as with most, but not all, democratic systems) a constant battle in the political arena between liberal and conservative values.

Perhaps the Democrats will take the next elections and spend billions of dollars to make the levee withstand a Cat 5 hurricane. Or perhaps not. How much money should the nation as a whole spend per capita in the New Orleans area on such a levee? $1,000, $10,000, $50,000???

As you say, I too believe we are still the richest and the most powerful nation on Earth. But change our political values and balance too much and we may lose that perception of ourselves.

Rick

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Aug 22 2006, 03:30 PM) [snapback]307752[/snapback]</div>

Perhaps the bible thumpers should do some more reading.

Time to take the log from our own eyes before we try removing slivers for others.

Gee, could we find a better use for the BILLIONS we're throwing down the black hole in Iraq? Exactly what would a national health care cost?

Iraq....healthcare....Iraq...healthcare...our own citizens.....foreigners that hate us............

Don't agree our citizens should have healthcare?

Well, pick something. Environment, energy, education.

Just don't squander it on more tax cuts and corporate subsidies.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Aug 22 2006, 04:53 PM) [snapback]307780[/snapback]</div>

Oh, yes, Mexico - that icon of political stability. Look, if you live in a country that has a wide gulf between the haves & have-nots, then you are asking for trouble - from both crime, revolution, etc. The way that most oppressive regimes pull the wool over the eyes of the oppressed is to spin them all kinds of religious BS. Empire & Religion go hand in hand.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 22 2006, 04:58 PM) [snapback]307786[/snapback]</div>

Bombing Iraq - that's Gods work but Universal Healthcare - that's Satans work. Godiva - you must be a Godless commie.

 

Can someone please post a video link to Geraldo crying into the camera about the rapes and murders in the superdome. That was some of the best fake journalism during the crisis. Turned out to be minimal or zilch on all counts. Stacks of bodies.. well... one or two.. We had more people die from the 4 day heat in Chicago this summer than died in the superdome during a hurricane.

To that point.... It was a hurricane... This is not some group of people the rest of the nation decided to kick into a refugee camp. National disasters happen all over the world to many nations. People suffer. I say we can get in there when it's safe for our supply mechanisms to engage. Until then, you've been in a disaster, you are in disaster conditions. Would it be too much to ask that you save back $8 bucks of your welfare check to keep a gallon of water on hand and a can of beans? Once help arrives, take a bottle of water, a couple MRE's and begin to rebuild your life.

Is that what happened?

NO. Too many idiots took advantage of the disaster programs that you and I handed out to those people. After they got done taking advantage of us and those programs, they are now sueing you and I (the taxpayers) for not having given more and faster.

To which I say... Go back to New Orleans. Here's another 2000 bucks, rebuild your house or buy another hooker, but hopefully next time the hurricane hits, it does a better job.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(triphop @ Aug 22 2006, 04:31 PM) [snapback]307801[/snapback]</div>

That's me. The Pinko Commie Socialist Heathen Satan-worshiper.

And don't forget Liberal.

How interesting Mexico should be mentioned. I understand that if you WORK you have HEALTHCARE.

The ironic thing that strikes me though is that our government wants to take our tax money and give it to FEMA and other incompetent governmental organizations, then turn around and say that the job FEMA should be doing should really be done by churches and private charities. People need to take care of themselves. It's not the Government's job.

So...what am I paying for?

Cruel? Isn't the Mexican Model exactly what is being proposed? No more government handouts. The poor are on there own. (Getting by? Watch 30 days, they're going to do poverty in Mexico.) And let's not forget...it was this woman's fault. All her fault. (Although I understand the Corps of Engineers has admitted to fault over the levees.) Because the Government is never responsible for anything. Irresponsible....yep, that's them to a tee.

And yes, I think our government wants us to be exactly like Mexico, except without the healthcare. Then we wouldn't need to import guest workers. We'd have our own home-grown peasants. Keep them barefoot, stupid and afraid.

As for the oppressive regimes, don't forget fear. Feed them religion, patriotism and make them very afraid and convince them that *you* are the only one that can keep them safe.

Sound familiar?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Aug 22 2006, 03:53 PM) [snapback]307780[/snapback]</div>

It's already changed. The balance is way out of whack.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Aug 22 2006, 05:34 PM) [snapback]307837[/snapback]</div>

More people died of heat in Chicago, you say? Then perhaps it was their fault. After all, they did choose to build their lives there.

If you watch mainstream news you'll only see the evil that occurred after Katrina. If that's your cup of tea, then do choke on it. The same too many idiots were taking advantage of the system way before Katrina. I don't recall you doing anything about it then. Your precious tax dollars are going down the tubes, but so are mine. I don't want to support lazy hoodlums anymore than you do, but guess what?! It's a part of present day life. You seem to think starting over is just so easy, don't you? A can of beans, a bottle of water and poof! A new life has begun. Get real. I think FEMA should be sued as should the government. Any money won should go to providing education for the poor... and not to the middle to upper class rich who are so far removed from real life it's pathetic.

Your last statement is utterly disgusting and to comment further would get me in trouble with the mods once again.