The Grim Truth About Getting Rich...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(prius04\";p=\"100466)</div>

I kind of like Bill Gates, but I'd hardly see him as someone to look up to.
As you say, he has striven to be the best. But what he has been striven to be the best at is as the leader of a very successful software company and NOT as the leader of a company that makes great software.

Most of his success with microsoft has been in marketing his products, and NOT in the design of those products. Personally, I think a better model would be someone who strove to make the best product and made money doing so. Not someone who strove to make the best profits and settling on his product being "good enough" to pull that off.

And I found your list of quotes intrigueing but you missed one of his best from about 15 years ago when he was quoted as saying that charity was unimportant to him and that was why he gave such a pittance of his income to charity. At the time, the amount he gave to charity was truly miniscule. When he said that, he was ridiculed in the press and very soon after that he created his foundation. Your list of quotes seems to suggest that he developed some kind of epiphany about charities about 10 years ago, and now he does indeed give tons of money to charity. But history suggests that he was shamed into doing so initially.

But even with his gigantic charitable giving, I suspect that there are millions of people who give much larger percentages of their incomes to charity. Gates does give tons of money and that is wonderful, but I suspect the percentage that he gives pales in comparison to some "regular folks" I know who truly give gigantic amounts, considering how much they make.

That said, I still kind of like Bill Gates. But he is hardly a hero.
[/b][/quote]

let me requote part of the quote.

If you can't make it good, at least make it look good.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(prius04\";p=\"100466)</div>

The percentage isn't even an issue for someone with Gates' wealth (which is really only Gates, himself). Consider the fact that he could literally "give away" over 90% of what he is worth and still grab over 200 million a year by simply investing in munis. Sheesh! I mean, what's anyone supposed to do with circa $40 billion anyway? For that matter, it's kind of tough for me to comprehend what anyone would do with $200 million a year in investment income alone.

Regardless, I kind of like Gates, too. I also agree that he is hardly a hero because, although he's given away tons of money, he still has tons left.............AND still retains tons of control over most of the dollars he's given, in one form or another.

 

An example of someone who got rich and was truly great is Matsushita. His goal was the best products and he so valued the worker that he became idolized in Japan. Even though Demming introduced TQM in Japan, Matsushita laid the groundwork for it to work well there whereas in the US, for the most part, it did not work well. Too much love of power here.

 

I really don't understand this constant obsessing over how we "look" in the eyes of others. It has created an out-of-control Consumerism that has amounted to nothing more than indentured servitude for the majority of wage earners.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a "traditional" Conservative. I was raised by parents who never went past the 6th grade, as they had to help support their large families during the Great Depression. They taught me many valuable lessons.

I worked my a** off while living in nasty cheap apartments, the folks refused to "help" me with money. They felt I would appreciate it a lot more if I had to work for it. They were right too.

By skimping and saving, and never having any debts, I'm now quite content and satisfied with my career and my life. Suze Orman may have some quirks, but she is mostly correct.

What blows me away is listening to a professional couple (Two doctors or two lawyers) with huge incomes, pissing and moaning how they are one paycheck away from being homeless. Of course, everything in their life is courtesy of Convenient Monthly Payments.

Yeah, I sometimes manage to hook up with interesting folks. They'll roll their eyes at my enforced austerity, then get jealous when I mention I have no debt. They get *jealous* with a combined income around 4x mine.

:roll:

I wonder if the whole point of such "articles" is to get folks to get even deeper into credit debt? "Why bother to try, just jump in up to your eyebrows, since you'll never amount to anything anyway?"

I never bite my nails and worry about paying off credit cards because I simply don't believe in them. In the warped world of credit cards, a person who promptly pays off their balance every month is a "deadbeat" and one who pays the minimum is a "good customer."

If I were to go into a back alley and lend out cash at 18%, I'd be arrested under the many laws against loan sharking and money laundering. If I'm Visa Corp and ding folks 18%, I'm a "good corporate citizen."

Anybody ever get the feeling the entire world is run upside down??

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman\";p=\"100660)</div>

I love being a credit card deadbeat.

 

ya having money makes it easy to make money. gates wealth peaked at about 69 billion. since he started giving away his wealth (before his foundation, he averaged donations of 10-25,000 a year. his excuse... he was too busy to donate. although that sounds like a lame excuse, i believe him because at the same time, according to sources close to him, he was also too busy to bathe, dress, or take care of anything else in his life besides running microsoft. that was the kind of singlemindedness that drove him) his total contributions have just past 40 billion.

now is current worth is about 44 billion (give or take a billion or two) and only about 3 billion of that difference has to do with his divesting assets. the rest has to do with the devaluation of his microsoft stock.

so that means that on paper, his 40 billion in donations cost him about 3 billion. now this is obviously not the whole story, but it does give one a huge indication of what money can give you the power to do.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GreenLady\";p=\"100694)</div>

Good for you!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid\";p=\"100722)</div>

No need to do that. I'm very happy and content. I even have a hobby farm I can putter around most weekends. Not a care in the world.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid\";p=\"100722)</div>

Nah, I'd never break your legs. That's actually a very dumb thing to do. Think about it: if somebody owes you money and they get a bit behind, the last thing you want to do is cripple them so they can't work.

You can mess up their face though. The vast majority of humans are vain creatures, so if you mess up their face and they're no longer pretty, that hurts a lot more than a broken arm or leg.

This is all hypothetical, right? Due to the many laws out there, I doubt I'd ever be in a good position to lend out money. Though I have thought of setting up one of those payday-to-payday loan places. Some of them are getting away with effective APR's of 350%.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid\";p=\"100722)</div>

Not really. A friend of mine tried that little stunt, and for a couple of years it worked well. But that poor credit score became a plague to him. He even lost out on a good job because they ran a background check. Oops.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid\";p=\"100725)</div>

That is how the System is set up. You pay into it your entire life, but when you retire THEY determine how much you get every month.

Remember, you paid into it your entire working life.

Seems to me, when a person turns 65 they should be able to have control of their entire "contribution." If they want to set something up like an annuity, fine. Lump sum, fine. Whatever.

I think it would also tend to encourage fiscal resonsibility, which is sadly lacking in society and especially those thieving so-and-so's in the government.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid\";p=\"100725)</div>

I've known people who paid homeowners insurance for their whole life and their house never burned down. That's a crime, all that money up in smoke.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman\";p=\"100792)</div>

On the face of it, this makes a lot of sense. But in 1935 upwards of 30% of the elderly in the USA were living in poverty and that is far from true today. Social Security did that.

Now it’s easy to say that the stupid people who waste their lump sum money should just suffer, but I doubt Americans would stand for that, and those elderly would likely end up on welfare anyway. So your solution would cost us all more money.

Social Security is “a kind†of insurance, and it’s “a kind†of defined benefit pension, but most of all, it’s a way for society to say we care about our elderly. And Social Security should never be some kind of lesson plan to teach fiscal responsibility.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(prius04\";p=\"100808)</div>

Or, here in Canada, if you *do* happen to save and have a little nest egg, then it will directly effect your CPP (Canadian Pension Plan). If the interest income happens to push your bracket high enough, there is a "clawback" and your CPP payments are reduced.

Despite the fact you paid into it your entire working life, the gov suddenly tells you "No, you were too smart by saving a bit, now we're going to penalize you."

 

Social Security is much more accurately thought of as just another tax that we pay. Indeed, any money not paid out in benefits are spent but the government.

Although you did "pay in", you also "paid in" for all the air craft carriers and fighter jets and Halliburton contracts. You also don't get that money back, unless you are extremely wealthy or well connected.

And in retirement, your monthly check is simply a defined benefit plan that you get for your whole life. And if you live long enough, you will get back MORE than you paid in.

And you don't get any health benefit unless you get sick, and you don't get your homeowners back unless your house burns down. This is how insurance works.

If everyone got their insurance money back if they didn't use it, the insurance industry wouldn't exist or insurance rates would be prohibitive.

You can criticize the way Social Security works all you want. (Like by saying you pay in and might not get it back, or you pay in but if you are rich you get less back etc etc etc.) But if it didn't have these restrictions and rules, we couldn't afford it. And if we didn't have it, we would have more elderly poverty. Simple as that.

Personally, I think SS should not be a regressive tax but should be progressive like our other taxes, and there should be a means test when you get older. It is after all just another tax. And we citizens should be willing to help keep our elderly from living in poverty.

Even Ross Perot thinks its stupid that people as rich as he can collect SS -- REGARDLESS of having paid into it all those years. It's just another tax.

And I have no doubt that you disagree. But that is what I think.

 

Anyone who doesn't appreciate SS for what it is probably hasn't lived as long as I have.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman\";p=\"100660)</div>

I agree with everything you said for the most part jayman, this section remind me of some things.

I do a Bible study with a local surgeon and he sometimes talks about the cost of doing business as a doctor. For example, he knows a neurosurgeon who makes 2 mill a year in salary, yet his malpractice insurance costs $1 mill. a year! (Course this still leaves a million a year...I might take that!). Another intersesting thing he said was the average hourly wage of some professionals. General practitions I think it was around $50 an hour, Surgeons were around $100 an hour, and the CEO of an HMO was $1,000 an hour.

Another thing that can be a easy trap for "professionals" to fall into is the loan fiasco. I hear horror stories of other grad programs who "have" to take out huge amounts of loans each year. Even students in my own program dont' realize how quickly those payments add up. Finishing an advanced degree with $100K-$140K in debt (the average according to a quick google) which is somewhere around a $1000-$1400 a month payment for 10 years!!!!!

This isn't an excuse though, just some things to think about.

 

Michael:

Yes, I agree with that. Let me expound though:

The very small sampling of highly educated working professionals that I've known (The sample is far too small to satisfy Chi Square reliability diagnostics) have themselves to blame for their financial misfortune. I’m not talking about the usual and customary expenses they face, which may be thought of as the “price of admission.â€

They "must" have that $600,000 home in a trendy neighborhood. They "must" have all the trendy designer clothes that - naturally - become pathetically dowdy and have to be thrown into the trash or given to Salvation Army after only 6 months of use. They “must†drive an exotic car or SUV that cost at least $85,000 Cdn. They “must†eat out at least 4 nights a week at a trendy restaurant where a cup of bloody coffee is $5.85.

I like plain but safe neighborhoods, now I’m in a plain but safe high-rise condo. I could care less what I wear, I put on the suit when needed, otherwise Wrangler jeans and cowboy boots work for me, and they’re old as the hills. I splurged on that 2000 GMC Sierra SLT, had a bit of fun with it, but never again. I’d sooner cook for myself or go to a place where a cup of bloody coffee is $1.05.

At a very basic level, I think this has to do with how much respect you have for yourself. If you endlessly worry about what other folks think about the house you live in, the car you drive, or the clothes you wear, then you’re extremely vain and also have some serious issues to deal with. Also, if you worry about what other folks think of you, then you must be a mind reader too.

And remember, they're biting their nails and endlessly worrying about being one paycheck away from total financial catastrophe. On a combined income at *least* 4x higher than mine. In one case, more like 6x higher than mine.

So they’ll get no help from me. I’m not Evil and in a sick, twisted way hoping for their ruin. They really do have a bit of sympathy from me, but that’s as far as it goes. You make your own bed in life.

Jay