The Great Divide: Prius lovers are steadfast, but the haters

Re: The Great Divide: Prius lovers are steadfast, but the ha

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman\";p=\"84524)</div>

There's another school of thought.. some people just like cars which grip and rip. My old Jetta was a blast to take through the corners, and I had no subconscious hangups... I just liked the way it felt. Some people just enjoy driving, the same way some people enjoy maximizing MPG, but I certainly wouldn't call those people anal or the like.

 

You don't need the car to protect you....


of course, who would want protection when a Suburban flies through a red light directly at you at 45 mph?

Not me, that's for sure. Pssht. :roll:

My husband urged me to pick the Prius largely because he knew I would be safe driving it, he says he can worry less about some red-light-running, speeding jerk in a pickup taking his wife away from him in a crash. He's not worried about MY driving but I am not the only person on the road.

 

LOL!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman\";p=\"84524)</div>

LOL! This is *exactly* what I was thinking. In fact, I call some of these 'compensations' "p-n¡s cars".

I've often thought that anyone who drives a Hummer or SUV should be able to provide proof that they go camping at least 4 times a year or have a really large family.

And trucks with the big oversize tires are the most useless and stupid cars I've ever seen.

I think the most ridiculous thing I ever saw was a Hummer-limo. What? A regular limo isn't macho enough?

 

[To make the roads safer, I'm all in favor of *lowering* the speed limits down to 55 MPH or maybe 50 MPH, strictly enforced

There is actually tons of data to refute this, but I'm a lazy sod, so I"ll ignore it for now.

I'm not sure what I'm discussing with you anymore.

Nothing has grip on ice. Based on where you live vs me, I would certainly believe you. However, an AWD performance car with Blizzaks,etc, will do quite well.

 

LOL! This is *exactly* what I was thinking. In fact, I call some of these 'compensations' "p-n¡s cars". <<

I'm really letting you folks off the hook on this one. This is the most inappropriate comment I've yet to read.

>>And trucks with the big oversize tires are the most useless and stupid cars I've ever seen.<<

Ok. You're opinion.

>>I think the most ridiculous thing I ever saw was a Hummer-limo. What? A regular limo isn't macho enough?
[/quote]

What does Macho have to do with it. Has that word even been used since 76? People who want limos want distinctive limos. I mean, what other purpose could there be? Right or wrong its all about showing off.

 

When my wife needed a new car we choose the Prius, but not just for the gas mileage, Suprise!
We picked the Prius for 1. Environmental concerns (we have two kids and want them to have the best world possible), 2. Reliability, 3. Reputation, and yes, 4. Gas Mileage.
My wife gets 50 mpg without trying, I get about 46 and drive like I always do.
Everything is relative; my wife's previous vehicle was a minivan she had 12 years, and my last truck lasted me 15 years (my current truck is only 10 years old). Going from those vehicles to the Prius is a big change. The car is a blast, fun to drive, fun to talk about, and we feel good about doing what we can to help keep the environment clean.

 

Re: The Great Divide: Prius lovers are steadfast, but the ha

So it sounds like you made a decision you're happy with. So did we. Enjoy the car!

 

Popscrcr, you feel we're not being objective.. however this IS the Prius forum, your comments are akin to me going to a MINI Cooper forum and saying "as someone who frequently hauls big cargo, the carrying capacity of this car is terrible. Plus when carrying 4 adults the back seat is much too crowded!" How is that objective? You're a performance enthusiast, fine, but this car isn't made for that and never will be. You think 43MPG isn't good enough for this car, whatever, I don't think you're going to get better mileage out of anything except an Insight, or one of the smaller VW diesels, Golf or Jetta (Even Passat's EPA isn't up to your wife's real-world 43MPG)

The article itself wasn't objective, nothing new. How much crap did Motor Trend & Car & Driver take for giving Prius awards? Objectivity isn't easy - ask Consumer Reports legal department.

People who drive big cars for "safety" are likely the same who'd run past someone in distress in a burning building. A bigger vehicle only helps you in a collision with a smaller one. Studies have shown in vehicles of similar sizes to have safety benefits to both vehicles (duh), wheras driving a "big truck" is more of the "screw your neighbor" mentality. A large vehicles offers no advantage with large, stationary objects (buildings, cement posts, etc.) and has problems of its own with rollover, etc. that cars don't. Your only advantage is if you can nail the guy in the smaller car. Personally, if I was driving a Hummer and someone in a smaller car dies in an accident, I'd feel about the same as if I ran down a pedestrian in my Prius, regardless if I could have avoided it or not. But I'd also like to see everyone get out of the burning building, so I guess no Hummer for me.

 

Re: The Great Divide: Prius lovers are steadfast, but the ha

A big HUH?

Never said the Prius was a performance car, never expected it to be. I (and the article in my mind) said once the newness of the toy wore off, there wasn't much there for driving enjoyment. Not a great shock that I would think that.

I'm not sure what wasn't objective about the article. Well, I mean its opinion. Let 10 drivers drive the car and log their impressions. Sure its biased, but no more so than your thinking its the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'm glad you like the Prius, I do too.

It isn't that 43mpg isn't good enough, its better than anything I've ever had. Its that the HYPE was 60mpg. Based on THAT, 43 is dissapointing. Believe me, I can live with 43. Call me a fool for believing some of the hype..that's cool.

Not sure I follow all of your safety stuff. If I were to drive into a building headfirst, I'd rather be in a body on frame vehicle.
As I expect to never drive into anything, please don't charge me for electronic safety doo dads.

 

This is relative to show that the mindset of R and T reviewers is not necassarily right or wrong, but it is not the mindset of most consumers. The Camry is constantly hammered by being uninspiring and dull yet it outsells any other sedan. So whatever joy some get out of HP and 0-60, it is not the only factor (or even the primary factor) for many consumers.

 

You can't violate Physics . All other things being equal, the amount of energy that must be managed at 55 MPH vs 75 MPH is vastly different. There is a famous equation:

KE = 1/2 M * V squared

Kinetic Energy is equal to one half the mass, multiplied by the square of the velocity. Relatively minor changes in velocity have large changes in KE.

If a much larger and heavier vehicle crashes into a smaller and lighter vehicle, the smaller and lighter vehicle (No matter how well engineered) will probably come out the loser. In an extreme example, if a fully loaded semi goes head-on into a Prius at 55 MPH, the Prius will be flattened.

If a fully loaded semi goes head-on into a half ton pickup at 55 MPH, well guess what, the pickup will probably be flattened too. On that inference, we should all be driving Kenworth's to work. But crash that Kenworth into a solid object, say a rock cut on a curvy road, and the semi will disintegrate.

I thought I'd try to find scientific data and came across a very interesting study done in Iowa by the Iowa Department Of Transportation:

http://www.iowadot.org/speed2002.htm

Among other things, the *average* increase in fatal + injury crashes just from increasing the speed from 55 MPH to 65 MPH is +28% for all Iowa highways.

On non-Interstate rural expressways, the fatalities increased 497% - no that is not a typo. NHTSA has studied this also and found positive correlation between increased speed limits and increased overall crash rates, though they also found other factors like car design that play a very important role:

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NC...98/Speedlim.pdf

Overall, you're safer travelling on divided Interstate than on rural two lane, no matter what the speed. And although increased enforcement of alcohol and vehicle operation has helped a lot, there is still a long way to go in this area too.

Beyond a certain point, airbags and seatbelts have diminishing returns. I rather doubt most drivers will want to put a rollcage in their car and fasten themselves down with a 5 point harness just to go for a drive.

Your claim that body-on-frame vehicles are "safer" to crash in than unit-body vehicles is simply false. First of all, it is far easier to design crumple zones into a unit-body structure than to design separate crumple zones for a body shell and a frame: you're actually forced to manage two dissimilar systems.

Both NHTSA and IIHS (Insurance Institute for Highway Safety) have conducted tests with both body-on-frame and unit-body vehicles, also the NCAP in Europe has performed testing. The tests involve full-frontal or "headon" crash simulation and the much more "real world" Offset crash.

Crashing into a uniformly constructed deformable barrier at the same velocity, most unit-body vehicles do well. Most body-on-frame do poorly

As an extreme example, the recent Jimmy and Blazer offset crash test at the IIHS was revealing and scary: the frame actually failed and the entire vehicle twisted and collapsed at the driver seat, pinning the crash test dummy. The forces were so severe the crash test dummy metal foot was snapped off.

Until Ford and Dodge redesigned their pickup trucks last year, they were also very poor performers in the offset crash test. This is reflected in real-world crashes, especially when two pickups or SUV's t-bone each other at an intersection.

A lot of folks think 4WD or AWD is some magic thing that is always superior, so they drive like idiots all the time. Under certain conditions (Ice, deep snow, etc) the 4WD/AWD vehicle will out-accelerate a comparable FWD car, if both have the same "all-season" tires on.

With the same tires, both will have about equal performance though when cornering and braking. Most car drivers compensate for poor conditions by slowing down and allowing increased following distance, whereas most 4WD/AWD folks have the mistaken belief that they can corner or at least stop better.

When I run the Dunlop Graspic DS-2 tires on all four wheels, my Prius easily out-accelerates the average 4WD, and certainly stops faster too. I can easily embarrass the average 4WD owner.

And after a major blizzard, I rarely notice passenger cars upside down in the median along the Trans Canada. However, I notice quite a few large pickup trucks and SUV's laying t**s up in the median.

 

:clap: :clap:

Hear, hear.

It would be a boring world without Honda Elements driving by, like colorful Soviet-era ice cream trucks.

 

Re: LOL!

You mean the ones jacked up so high that even the bumper on a US Forest Service truck is lower? I'd guess 90% of them never go "off road" unless you count a gravel road. After a blizzard you will find a rash of them upside down along the Trans Canada here.

Hmmm, a "limo" that can seat +20 people. Last time a checked, we already have vehicles that can comfortably seat +20 people.

They're called a "bus."

:roll:

 

Jeff:

:lol:

Now now, don't tease the Honda Element designer too much. He might commit suicide ...

Jay

 

Well, Jay, there are those cars that I wouldn't want to drive, but which I enjoy very much as scenery.

I just look at them driving down the road, and say "Thank you, God, for providing me with this entertainment!" :mrgreen:

And really, I have a lot of affection for the Element. I grew up with Legos, and had a great fondness for them; every time I see an Element, I want to climb on the roof and look for the 6 round connectors on top.

 

Jeff:

:lol:

I can almost imagine an Element speaking with the same voice as the late Rodney Dangerfield:

"I get NO respect!"

Jay

 

55 vs 65 vs 75

Was just skimming and forgive me if I missed this...but there is also reaction time and braking distance.

Your reaction time isn't going to get any faster. But going 55 mph gives you slightly more time than going 75 mph.

And as speed increases, so does the distance needed to brake.

55 mph is not only "safer", but does save gas. Yeah, I'll probably continue to do 65 or 70. But as inefficient as that is, at least in my Prius I'll still get double the mileage I used to.

As for the "stupid" trucks...yeah I meant those little trucks with tires as big as the cab. The ones where I can walk under the bumper without ducking. The ones that look like miniature "Big Foot"s from the indoor truck rallys. Exactly what is the purpose? Do the big tires get better mileage? Better traction? Improve maneuverablilty? Increase stability? (Actually I know that one..they're actually dangerous and increase chances of a rollover.) Is there any enhancement to performance (of the TRUCK) that is accomplished by those big, honking tires?

My guess is....no.

And no, these trucks weren't modified for any off-roading purpose. If they were, their paint wouldn't be pristine and all glittery/shiney with decals and playboy/naked lady license plate frames. Dice hanging off the mirror. Shag dashboard. And lots of shiny chrome all over. Not a speck of dirt. Oh, yeah...they are real "working" vehicles. Sorry. I'm old and I'm female. I just don't get it.

They alway seem to have no muffler too. Is that another correlation...bigger noise equals bigger....?

So how many mpg does a Hummer-limo get? 0.5? 1? 1.5?

 

Jay-
Bravo. Your response to Popsrcr was classic Jayman. It was very well presented and covered all the points that I took issue with.

 

Is that what that is?

Is that what that was? I saw this ugly, boxy car at the dealership when I went to test drive my Prius. Sorta like a cross between a WWII jeep and a MiniCooper only without the cuteness or charm.

Blech.

What are they thinking?

Will they at least make it a hybrid too?