Featured The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

don't forget management and r&d expenditures. They are nothing to sneeze at either.

I remember my dad writing GM in the early 60's to implement waist seat belts.
The response was that seat belts were too expensive to include in their cars.

When ever a business can get away with going south of the border or overseas to save on labor costs
they do. So don't think for a minute that management gives a hoot about American labor, unless they are forced to. Then the political rhetoric starts.

And safety? just look at the new mustang (fastest road legal model yet) or vette ( the one that's been bending the frame on the drag strip) as two examples.

Model S is still faster than both when it's in ludicrous mode. Not that that should have to be necessary. but it seems that it is.

 

Maybe we can keep the jobs, by having new auto plants around the Country, but the union is interested in maintaining its current position. Virgina is right-to-work (non union state) I wonder why we do not get more new business.

 

It is always interesting to me to see the place the UAW finds itself in rearguards to its membership and its relationship with the company.
Here is an article on the most recent UAW scandal

Feds charge ex-UAW leader in widening corruption scandal

It seems often the UAW represents it own agenda and political ends with no input or concern for its captive membership.

As a retired Toyota worker I remember how the UAW always tried to unionize our Toyota Plant with no success.They would picket at our gates and hand out union pamphlets and attempt to organize a union at our plant They had nothing to offer us we didn't already have by working cooperatively with the company.

In Japan all the Toyota plants are represented by a Union. The Union works to provide social and professional opportunities for the workers. It cooperates with the company to provide these benefits and outlets for the workers. The Union in Japan openly works with the Company to make the Company stronger and more successful, which will in turn allow it to provide more for its workers. Both the Union and Company cooperate to make a pleasant workplace for employee satisfaction and growth! In our training trips to Japan at our Mother plant Tsutsumi we would often be invited to participate at the Company/Union events and they were great fun where we played softball games and held karaoke contest. They were family events for the whole Company where it bought everyone closer together and built teamwork.

It seems this is completely opposite of how the Unions in our country operate. I have belonged to two Unions in my life the United Rubber Workers and The Teamsters . So I have first hand knowledge of Unions and have actively belonged to them and paid Union dues.

 

That bolded part is absolutely true. As a kid (50 years ago now?)I had to be a member of the Retail food workers union. I was a stock boy at A&P. When A&P bought National, they closed my store because a newer national was two miles away. I walked a mile to work or rode a bike - didn't have a car then. My manager and the two assistant managers were transfered to the new place down the road. The union said I had to go to a store 20 miles away because of seniority issues. No matter how much A&P begged and pleaded for me to go to the new store, the union said no. Well, I couldn't get to the store 20 miles away so I had to get laid off. A year later a bag boy position opened at the new store. It was a demotion, a pay cut, and the union demanded a re-instatement fee. So tell me how the union is there for the workers?

 

there's generally room for negotiation on both sides. a fair balance is needed, and takes skill and cooperation at the bargaining table.
eventually they'll reach it. without the strike, its status quo, which may or may not be a good thing, depending on your perspective.

neither corporate executives, nor union leaders are saints.

from the outside looking in, its impossible to know what's right

 

I've worked with some Japan folks too in industry and the guys in industry I think do stints with gov't groups, so I've worked with the gov't group too, trying to recall if we hosted a few of them in USA or what. But yes in America we have adversarial systems...we like to fight it out to the death between say EPA/industry. In Japan much more cooperative and of common mind working together for the most part I am thinking. Not perfect but much more unified vision. But it is less diverse too. An Amercian manager would probably say completely not bottom line focussed over there.

 

As part of Aerospace Tech (which encompasses much of sailing & ship hull/ propulsion design & Manufacturing) for over 3½ decades - there is a bit of irony with so many willing to throw Unions under the bus - as the primary problem. Business leadership are far from being Saints. I recall when Toshiba & its Judas- like business head - sold to Russia, super stealth Machining technology of Submarine screws (the non Maritime might think of them as the propellers). But oh, look how honorable, the head of the company stepped down.
Opinion | Toshiba Caught Between Tokyo and Washington - The New York Times
Gee, what a fair deal for corrupt company leaders, so the rest of us - including Japan's own citizens can have 20 multi-warhead nukes parked right offshore. It would be nice if we could all live in such a fantasy about how it's the workers that are the problem, rather than it's both. U.S. unions are getting weaker as the decades drag on, to the point where many of the contracts now are drafted at the behest of company management. And speaking of company management, let's not forget a modern example a la dieselgate.
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Interesting how you blame the union rather than the company who closed your store.

However, after 50 years of very effective anti-union messaging and union busting, I'm no longer surprised by this sentiment. But to remind everyone what unions have done for us (even if you've never been a union member), here's a non-exhaustive list:

Unions aren't perfect, but their seemingly illogical actions make much more sense if you understand the history of union busting in the US. And, lest you think this is ancient history, companies such as Tesla and Amazon still engage in union busting activities to this day.

 

yeah, the chinese aren't too thrilled with american unions. they much prefer their sweat shops, as we did back in the day, and many still yearn for (like bob klutz)

 

Nor are Americans thrilled with unions. It is not isolated to individuals or regions. Her is a story where the UAW membership is actually suing the UAW to get their dues back and additional compensation for corruption

Autoworkers sue UAW, FCA: We want our union dues back. You scammed us

Here is a partial list of union corruption prosecution for 2018

Union Corruption Report: Here Are All The Corrupt Union Bosses From 2018

 

Has Hoffa been found?
Even wonder what it's like to be a president?
History is a fickle mistress.

 

As a controls engineer, I spent 30 years designing and installing automation in the plants of GM, Ford, Chrysler, Mazda, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Kaiser Aluminum, Anheiser Busch, Ross Labs, Briggs and Stratton, etc. I honestly don't know how the union plants stay in business. Their crippling labor rules makes everything harder to do and less efficient.

The mechanical engineers at the company that I worked for built some standard automation that I designed the electrical controls and programming for. We sold that automation to many customers. The customer may ask for some program changes to suit their operation which I could do but the hardware was essentially the same. GM purchased several of these units for one of their plants. We included our standard three days to install and commission each unit. GM had a local mechanical contractor install and assemble the machines and an electrical contractor run the conduit and wire the equipment.

Once I arrived at the plant, I lost half a day with their safety orientation. After the safety training, my escort informed me that I would not be allowed to bring my start-up toolbox into the plant so I had to take my toolbox back to my car.

During the checkout, it wasn't unusual to find interface wiring problems when connecting to the customers existing equipment. I discovered a couple of wires that needed swapped. I tracked down the area supervisor and asked for an electrician. He got on his radio and requested an electrician. About a half hour later an electrician arrived. I explained that I needed to swap two wires. The electrician explained that I was not allowed to use tools. I showed him the wires that were reversed and he swapped them and then he left.

As I continued the check-out, I discovered another set of wires were reversed. I again had to track down the supervisor. I explained that we had budgeted 3 days for a typical install but without my tools and with the delays getting an electrician, it was going to be more like three weeks. The supervisor got on his radio again and requested that an electrician be assigned to me.

Once the electrician was assigned to me, he changed his tune about me using his tools. He set his tool pouch down and said I could use his tools. He said that if anyone question me about using tools to tell them I was covered and that he would be right back. He left to socialize with his buddies. Once the equipment was installed, I had to spend a couple of days training the operators on the equipment.

I installed the same equipment in a Honda plant and again they had a local mechanical contractor install and assemble the equipment and an electrical contractor run the conduit and wiring. When we arrived we were allowed to bring in our tools and work on the equipment. Honda assigned the operators that would be using the equipment to shadow us. During the checkout, I started to reach for a button to start part of the equipment and one of the operators that was watching what I was doing said "I got it" and pressed the button for me. By the time I had finished checking out the equipment, the operators were running the equipment themselves. No training required.

I know that we owe the labor unions struggles for the standard of living that we enjoy in our country. I was a union worker for 8 years while I was going to college in the 70's but the pendulum seemed to have swung too far even then. These are just two typical examples of installations in union vs non-union plants.

Different philosophies, different rules and they both work to reach the same objective.

 

agreed. like everything in life, you take the bad with the good. there just doesn't seem to be any way around it, because for all the people who see the inefficiencies that you do, there are others that can enumerate the reasons why they are worthwhile.

 

any union, group, association etc - is only as weak/strong - good/bad proactive/ambivalent cowardly/bravel as the majority of its members. Personal example; at one time California Bar members were paying around ½ grand for our yearly dues. The lion's share of dues went to the association's lobbies that worked hard primarily for far left agendas. The bar was ignorant of the fact (that eventually became evident), that the majority were not of that far-leaning political agenda. The members successfully sued & won - on the Fed 1st Amendment issue that its members we're being denied their right of free association, by being forced to pay for philosophies that ran contrary to their viewpoint. It didn't matter to the bar, as it fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court. When the bar lost, dues were reduced to a pittance because that was the only portion necessary to actually perform administrative duties. HAA!! Now the bar has to beg for donations for matters unrelated to its administrative tasks.
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Ronald Doles I read your post with great interest. I initially started my career with Toyota as a skilled laborer (mechanic). We were expected to know the electrical,plc programming, plumbing, machinist trades as well as fix and assist with any problem that would interfere with building a quality vehicle. You may be calibrating a precision encoder on a painting robot the first part of the day and changing out a urinal after lunch. The expectation was you would do both jobs professionally without complaint and contribute to the success of the company by doing so. Toyota sent individuals to technical school to learn areas that were a weakness for them.
Before working at Toyota I worked as a unionized plant as a mechanic the difference was truly amazing. Not surprising this unionized plant shut down and all production was moved to a non unionized plant in Indiana.

In my career I progressed to the Engineering Department as a Specialist and had a chance to travel to Plants like NUMMI in California other Toyota overseas plants as well as Big 3 unionized plants. The differences and especially differences in morale is like night and day.

I wanted to let you know you are not the only one who noticed the difference in union and non union plants in the automotive industry. Your observations are on target and mirror exactly what I witnessed.

I believe this is also why almost all new automotive plants are being built in the Southeast away from union influences.

 

Dumb rules aren't limited to union shops. I'm sure you could think of one (and likely more) examples of non-union shops with dumb rules or stupid procedures. Humans are infinitely creative at finding ways to make things stupid.

But a union shop having dumb rules isn't an argument against unions, but an argument that the dumb rules should be changed. And I'd say you have a better chance of changing dumb union rules than convincing the C-suite or politicians the error of their ways. However, it often takes more work than people actually want to put in.

 

I worked for Babcock & Wilcox for about 8 years as a union employee. My biggest complaint with unions is not collective bargaining, it is that they do not police their own. They defend the worst of the worst and they collect dues from good guys who just do their job everyday.

Case in point, our attendance rules were that if you missed 3 days unexcused in 30 days you were put on a "30 day notice". If you missed 3 days unexcused while on "30 day notice" you were put on a "60 day notice". If you missed 3 days unexcused while on "60 day notice" you were put on a "90 day notice". If you missed 3 days unexcused while on "90 day notice" you were terminated. These were unexcused absences, no doctor excuses. You had to work pretty hard to get fired over attendance.

One workmate, Tony, had a calendar on his locker with every other Friday marked as the days that he planned to take off. His supervisor would check his calendar if he didn't show up. That should have kept him off the attendance notices but he took an extra Friday and got put "On 30". He missed an extra Friday while he was "On 30" and got put "On 60". He missed an extra Friday off while he was "On 60" and was put "On 90". He missed an extra Friday while "On 90" and was terminated. Tony went to a doctor and somehow got a backdated excuse for the last day he missed that got him terminated. The union fought to get him back and he was reinstated and received a payment for the 8 months since he was terminated. He quit the next day.

To be fair, I missed days unexcused when I worked there too but I never got put "On 30". I worked in Electronic Maintaince and my boss at the time said that he wasn't worried about me missing a day here and there. He said that once I got married, I would have to start working 5 days and when I had a kid, I would start working 6 days. How true.

I could tell you dozens of stories like this but again if unions want to be a relevant bargaining agent, they would have more leverage if they would police their own.

 

Gotta wonder if this is related

General Motors Sides With Trump in Emissions Fight, Splitting the Industry - The New York Times