The Chevrolet Volt.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Jan 11 2007, 05:35 PM) [snapback]374482[/snapback]</div>

Ah. Got it. Could have saved me a bit of typing!

GM has a special place in my heart because of some of the REAL serious crap they've pulled (has any other car maker EVER taken a perfectly-fucntioning car back from paying customers and crushed them?). Toyota hasn't done *quite* as much to tick me off, but they also haven't been the green angels that they would like to be seen as! Anybody who attended the Detroit auto show will tell you - Toyota's got nothing on the plate but anti-green vehicles, and at the same time, GM comes out and announces the greenest car since the EV1. Amazing.

No, I'm definitely not the stereotype you mention. I just know what I know.

Thanks for the clarification, Marlin. We'll find something else to disagree about later...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jan 11 2007, 08:46 PM) [snapback]374488[/snapback]</div>

I presume that no corporation is made up of boyscouts but it always comes down to the product for me. I haven't had a Toyota yet that wasn't perfect and GM never sold me a car that was. Perhaps I just have good Toyota karma and terrible GM karma. As many of us who, as marlin puts it, feel that Toyota can do no wrong, if GM or Ford built a perfect car a lot of the time and actually thought enough of the green crowd to design and build a hybrid car, we'd buy it but that just doesn't seem to ever be likely to happen.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mkaresh @ Jan 11 2007, 11:02 AM) [snapback]374129[/snapback]</div>

Momentum in the media. Sales is about momentum and GM is getting their MOJO back! It is fun again! The head of Chevrolet has virtually assured the dealers the Volt will be real in 2010!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Jan 10 2007, 05:01 PM) [snapback]373825[/snapback]</div>

I guess you are one of those that can justify anything. Big difference between US and Japanese expansion in the early 20th century. Japanese expansion was of the military variety and the US expansion was largely not. Big reason Toyota is not blossoming in Japan, the systematic rape and murder of Chinese people only 65 years ago.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Jan 11 2007, 05:53 PM) [snapback]374431[/snapback]</div>

As I said before there are many factors, regionalization, rural vs urban, truck vs car, loyalty, industry, public employee vs private, etc.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 12 2007, 11:24 AM) [snapback]374666[/snapback]</div>

Real? If by "real", you mean for sale to the public, then want to put some money on that?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Jan 12 2007, 10:30 AM) [snapback]374680[/snapback]</div>

I'll take the bait. I will bet you there will be "VOLT" or something similar manufactured as a Chevrolet during the dalendar year of 2010! I have seen several announcements that seemed more "trial-balloon" than announcement. This announcement was full of conviction.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 12 2007, 08:19 AM) [snapback]374666[/snapback]</div>

Ha! I am starting to get concerned that this poster has some financial connection to GM

Darell, I am honored to be communicating with you. Your website is inspiring to me and my family (no I am not kidding, I really enjoyed it and even got my father to read it so now he's your biggest fan). I agree with you that the battery argument is bogus. Li-Ion is old technology. Somehow my Japanese Panasonic Laptop can run 11 hours on it's Li-Ion battery while my wife's Dell dies after just 2. It's all a matter of cost and desire. The thing that has me filled with hope is the amount of money that GM and FORD are losing every year. I figure, the Bush Oil Lobby can only bribe them so much, eventually the losses exceed the bribes by so much money that the company is forced to face reality or just close it's doors. Given that choice, Bush's buddies will be turned away and GM/FORD will finally build modern, efficient automobiles. We can all hope can't we?

I am on the Tesla list but I am in Canada so it's likely not going to happen. I'm also on the Hymotion list but that seems very delayed and I am losing hope on it

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ecojosh @ Jan 12 2007, 10:33 AM) [snapback]374687[/snapback]</div>

Believe me I have a huge financial connection to GM but I do not work for them. I have never hidden that fact.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 12 2007, 08:37 AM) [snapback]374690[/snapback]</div>

OK so if you are serious that you have a connection to them, wouldn't that make you very biased? It would make most, if not all of your posts discountable. Whether you are a parts-supplier to GM, a Dealership owner, an 'advisor' or work for a related company, your posts take on a whole new meaning as 'postvertising' or 'disinformation..'

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ecojosh @ Jan 12 2007, 10:51 AM) [snapback]374702[/snapback]</div>

Yes, I am biased and have never tried to hide that. I think every one on here is biased to some degree. YOu have all purchased a toyota Prius and need to justify that purchase(most) in every way you can. It is very natural. So yes i have more bais than others but when I recite facts on here, they are facts. Opinions are another thing altogether. It would be very hard for anyone on here to disagree using facts with my main points.

--Toyota has used the green image from the Prius deflect critiscism as they continually introduce more and bigger vehicles. Loook at their recent intros in Detroit. It would be hard to describe them as "green"

--Toyota and other import vehicles have tried to make themselves as American as possible through some less than "honest" means. I am on a fine-line here, after all it is advertising. My concern is when the media takes the advertising or talking points press release, doesn't question anything and further americanizes Toyota in news articles.

--The surge of foreign goods is undermining our currency and standard of living and it is going largely unchecked by the politicians looking out for us in Washington.

I ahve had posts on other issues but I think those are the main points I keep coming back to.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 12 2007, 02:05 PM) [snapback]374720[/snapback]</div>

I was really amused me to see the response here when the Toyota FJ-Cruiser came out. It actually gets slightly less gas mileage than the Ford Explorer. However, when an American car company comes out with a new SUV class vehicle, we get comments like "Yet another gas guzzling SUV! When is GM going to 'get it'?". Yet when Toyota came out with the FJ-Cruiser, we got comments like "Wow!" and "Cool!" and we got sighting reports, and all kinds of positive buzz. True, it wasn't the exact same people praising the FJ-Cruiser who were earlier condemning the American companies for the releasing another SUV. Rather it was just that the GM bashing crowd was silent about the FJ-Cruiser. But that's the point. Toyota gets a pass from these people and can do no wrong. If the FJ-Cruiser had been a Ford, Chevy, or Dodge SUV, they would have been all over it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 12 2007, 11:32 AM) [snapback]374685[/snapback]</div>

Manufactured? They manufactured a concept car already. Or do you mean "for sale to the public"?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Jan 12 2007, 12:21 PM) [snapback]374728[/snapback]</div>

Perhaps Toyota gets a pass, if they do, because unlike GM and Ford, they don't seem to be betting the farm on selling SUVs and Trucks only. I'm not in the market for an SUV, and if I was it would be something along the lines of a RAV4 or siimilar, but you got to admit that the FJ has some style to it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Jan 12 2007, 11:32 AM) [snapback]374729[/snapback]</div>

When I say manufactured I don't mean hand-made in a top-secret lab somewhere. Yes, for-sale to the public.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ecojosh @ Jan 12 2007, 11:51 AM) [snapback]374702[/snapback]</div>

If I'm not mistaken, malorn owns some Chevy dealerships or something. I'm probably going to put him on ignore at some point, but it's kind of fun to see what he says sometimes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 12 2007, 01:05 PM) [snapback]374720[/snapback]</div>

Yes, I need to justify my Prius Purchase. Let's see ... my best tank ... over 600 miles on 9.4 gallons ... 61.7mpg ... hmmm God, PLEEEASE give me SOME way of justification for buying this Lame Prius ... that just goes & goes & goes. Nope, cant think of a single reason. You got me there! Sure wish I'd of bought another chevy. :blink:

Yes, I really am disgusted how Toyota Get those fake points for being Green.
Mean while, the most recent issue of consumer reports shows the LEASE reliable small car's list as being lead by chevys. That's why I don't buy GM. My driveway, btw, no longer has oil leak stains. Yep, sure wish I could justify this dang Prius

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 12 2007, 12:33 PM) [snapback]374734[/snapback]</div>

and when you say "something similar to the Volt", do you mean a car with a serial hybrid drivetrain with plug in capability? How are they doing on the plug-in Vue?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Jan 12 2007, 11:32 AM) [snapback]374729[/snapback]</div>

Do some googling of Chevy Tahoe and you will almost always have gas-guzzling in the article somewhere. Do the same for fj and you will almost never have gas-guzzling in the article. Yes I think the fj has found a market niche, much more appealing than the Honda Element.

 

Ah, I see now - you are assuming that we are all Toyota lovers and hate GM for some subconscious reason.

I need to make some quick notes for you; This is the first Toyota I have ever owned. My garage consists of cars from Italy, Germany, France (hah), Japan and England. I've owned lots of American cars but they currently just aren't my style (I'm not a Cadillac kind of guy - I'm not 70 and I am not a wannabe hip hop ganster who needs an Escalade or other 'caddy' with a big chrome grill to make himself feel like a man).

I bought a Prius because it was the greenest car I could use for a family mover. I waited until the day the IIHS tests came out before I finally bought it. I am not a big beleiver in Toyota, I really don't give a poo-poo about that brand. If GM had made the Prius I would have bought it anyway. It was the CAR and the Technology that I bought - not the brand.

The fact that it is Japanese did make me want it due to knowing I would probably be in for less service - but gave me heartburn about safety (the Japanese and Americans often build cars FOR the tests, rather then for real world safety, an example being the small metal bar that was put in the exact middle of the Camry rear bumper so it would do well in the IIHS bumper test - however if you hit anywhere other then the exact middle you sustain major damage. The German engineers simply don't play those pathetic test-rigging games). When I buy a family mover Safety is a top priority, coupled with economy. For some unknown reason it took the IIHS years to finally test the Prius. The euro NCAP tests were helpful but the IIHS are the results I usually go by. The Prius did very well in both tests, but I don't fully trust the car's safety due to Toyota's history of 'building for the test not the crash'.

The bottom line is that you (you meaning you and GM) are stuck thinking about branding and "why don't they like us". Instead of thinking along that level you should be thinking of HOW DO WE BUILD A BETTER, MORE MODERN CAR...

IF YOU BUILD IT, WE WILL COME

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Jan 12 2007, 11:21 AM) [snapback]374728[/snapback]</div>

Wow, it happened to me too! When the FJ came out I just assumed it got 25+ miles to the gallon. I see in it gets the same mileage as a Chevy Tahoe. Unbelievable. Thank you for the heads-up. Now honestly, what if GM had introduced an SUV that size with that mileage, Most of you would be all over them and their incredible uncaring for the environment and how unresponsible they were as an automaker. Same case with the new Tundra: Evergreen Toyota comes out with a truck that gets worse mileage than its GM counterpart. Now reverse the roles again and tell me there would not be a story there?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 12 2007, 12:29 PM) [snapback]374666[/snapback]</div>

By 2010 I better go put my name on that list too ... just like I did for the EV1. Whoops! that's right ... THAT list never existed. Maybe the VOLT list will 'disappear' as well, so GM can say, "nobody wanted one".

As for Toyota not blossoming in Japan, you're probably trying to say 'China'. But you want to blame it on Japan because they attacked China? How does that work ... by THAT logic, WE wouldn't want anything to do with China, because THEY helped North Korea, only FIFTY years ago. Your really grasping for straws. Fact is China labor is cheaper, and like all countries, the wealthier laborers get displaced by the cheaper laborers.
Like I said, GET OVER IT. Let the asians have their piece of the financial pie. It really gauls you, doesn't it, that asians are getting a piece of the pie.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ecojosh @ Jan 12 2007, 11:38 AM) [snapback]374739[/snapback]</div>

I agree, it is product, product , product. I am just tired of all the free-passes toyota gets.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Jan 12 2007, 11:46 AM) [snapback]374744[/snapback]</div>

The Asians fair piece I have no problem with. Unfortunately, there is not much "fair" trade going on with China and Japan or Korea for that matter. Interest-free governement loans, protected home markets, underwritten shipping costs, artificially manipulated currency, is not part of free-trade. Yes i meant Toyota is having a tough time in China not Japan. The Japanese market is protected for them so it would be hard for them to struggle there.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Jan 12 2007, 11:46 AM) [snapback]374744[/snapback]</div>

Did you put your name on the RAV4EV list too? How come you never mention toyota dropping that?