The 2nd gen Volt is looking better & better than the Prius

I was replying to iplug's post in which his contention is that the 2nd gen Volt's spec look less impressive against the up coming Prius plug in's expected specs on EV range and fuel efficiency. I just wanted to point out those aren't the sole specs between the two cars, and not to judge on narrow priorities.

Yes, you brought the non-plug in into the plug in discussion. The Prius sold 122,776 last year. The Camry sold 428,606, which likely includes the 30k or so of hybrid models, and the Corolla sold 339,498. The top 5 small cars sold over 200k, and the top 4 mid size cars sold over 300k. So it isn't just Toyota selling a lot more cars than the Prius. It is a great all around car, but most buyers find the other options more compelling. Gas prices also weren't a major factor for all of 2014.

Yes, the Camry and F150 sell for other reasons. Since it may not have been clear, I was discussing performance in relation to the Volt and Prius plug in, since that is the more obvious priority someone would use to choose the Volt over the PPI. Again, people shouldn't assume their priorities are held by all car buyers.

Green cars, which I'm taking to exclude high efficiency ICE ones, really haven't been selling. Hybrids haven't held higher than 3% of sales. The Prius sells very well for a hybrid, but it still is only selling a fraction of the popular models' numbers. The Chrysler 200 sold nearly as many cars as it did last year. It does so because it is a good, all round car with the highest EPA MPG rating. The hybrid versions of ICE models tend to only make up 10% of the model's sales, which means they are way under 50k a year. The other hybrid only models sell in similar numbers. So the Prius alone could be said to be selling well, but not green cars.

The Prius does not drive bad, though I have never driven a gen3. For people that like driving, it just isn't engaging. It doesn't need to be fast to be engaging if some are thinking you can't race around traffic anyway. It's about being able to read the road, and the car, from the driver's seat. Cars like the Prius can handle twisty roads just fine, but driving enthusiasts want the car to give them subtle cues about how close they are getting to the edge of the tires' grip along with that. It's the difference between watching a movie on a laptop or at the theaters to them. Another analogy is that they just drive a Prius when they want to become part of the car. You might not be able to get that, but they might not be able to get the joy of hypermiling. Even if most people don't understand that, more positive reviews from driving enthusiast auto writers will trickle into their subconscious.

Plug ins are selling a little less than the other hybrids for the main contenders. But for them, that is good. These are all first generation cars, and they are attracting more people of differing car preferences than the first hybrids did.

Yes, but the other way around. I think they'll improve the handling of the liftback. With the camoed cars appearing to be more sedan like in profile, and that, Toyota just needs to give it better seats in order to to bring in new buyers. Better efficiency is nice, but we are hitting the wall of dimmishing returns here. If 50mpg wasn't enough to expand the pool of potential buyers, 55mpg with the rest of the car not changing won't be either.

While expect the handling to improve for the liftback, it might not for the plug in. With longer EV range comes a larger weight difference due to the plug in's battery. Placement of the pack also matters. The Model S and Volt actually benefit from how the pack is spread out along the car's length. So it could get the same handling improvement as the plain old Prius, if the engineers are given the resources to do so. My real concern with the plug in is whether or not Toyota starts to put effort in selling it.

 

okay, you've won me over with confusion.

 

Didn't mean to confuse. Let me back up.

With improved range and fuel efficiency, the next Prius PHV may be a 'greener' car than the new Volt. That doesn't mean that the Volt is necessarily looking less 'better and better' than the Prius. Simply because 'greenness' in terms of efficiency and emissions isn't a sole category that people base car buying decisions on. The current Volt doesn't beat the Prius(either one) on cargo and passenger space, and I don't expect the new one to beat the new Prius, so I used performance as an example why the Volt may look better than the Prius to some buyers.

A car strong in one area, but deficient in the rest may have its followers, but it won't be a big seller. If fuel efficiency and emissions was all that mattered, the first Insight would have beaten the Prius. It didn't because the Prius was a better all around car. So if you want people to buy a car that reduces fuel use and emissions, it has to appeal to the public for reasons beyond those in order to make a real difference.

All the sales figures may have been too much. My point there is that while the Prius liftback(maybe Prime) is the hybrid all the other hybrids wish they were in terms of sales, but in terms of all car sales, it is only middle of the pack by GoodCarBadCar small car segment. To have a bigger impact on 'greening' the car fleet, the next Prius is going to need something else to appeal to the general car buying public. Because I don't see any car company selling their sedan hybrids at the same price as the ICE version, much less dropping the ICE one all together.

 

2 great cars, 2 completely different manufacturers and strategies. different strokes for different folks. variety is great, no need for the continuous comparisons and bashing, but i know it will never end.

the pip doesn't have to drive better to sell, but of course, any additional attribute will sell more of any vehicle, all else being equal. but there's no free lunch.

it may be impossible to nudge alt fuel vehicles very much without gov incentives and higher gas prices.

 

True. Just pointing why one's idea of great may not apply to all.

Plug ins may break out of that need. They get incentives now, but the next Volt will have a starting price nearly $10k lower than when the first gen appeared. Then the plug and EV driving seems to do a better job of winning people over than using less gas alone.

On the other side, hybrids are asking people to pay extra in order to just save gas. In addition to the hybrid premium, there may be the cost lost cargo space, adjusting to an eCVT from a traditional multispeed transmission for most, and the difference in brake feel of the regenerative brakes. Those also apply to plug ins, but to a person it appears they are getting more for their change.

 

interesting hypothesis, but nothing to base it on. time will tell.

 

Good points, Bisco!

DBCassidy