Featured The ‘greenest’ car in America might surprise you

It takes a lot of fossil fuel to generate electricity

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Some are lucky enough to have their own solar - this comes at quite a financial cost though and has arguable efficiency and value/cost.
In the US the vast majority of electrical generation comes from fossil fuel

Having said that I would like an electric vehicle and solar power at our house.

I can well see how the Prime is the king of efficient vehicles- however any manufactured vehicle takes a tremendous amount of natural resources from our earth - I don't see in my wildest imagination how any vehicle could be considered 'green'.

"How much coal, natural gas, or petroleum is used to generate a kilowatthour of electricity?
The annual average amounts of coal, natural gas, and petroleum fuels used to generate a kilowatthour (kWh) of electricity by U.S. electric utilities and independent power producers in 2022 were:1

• Coal–1.14 pounds/kWh
• Natural gas–7.42 cubic feet/kWh
• Petroleum liquids–0.08 gallons/kWh
• Petroleum coke–0.85 pounds/kWh"

 

Probably another topic for another thread.

Like my old friend Kermit always says: "It's not easy being green."
AND HIS kind of green is rock-solid, 100% easy-peasy to accurately DEFINE.
(even by $cience)

According to the Googles:
Green is the color in the visible light spectrum with a dominant wavelength of about 500-550 nm, more or less.
Carbon throughput is fairly complicated, even if one could agree on the anthropogenic component of 'climate change' ....

Fun fact:
The USN (and others) study optical oceanography A LOT.
Because.....mines and stuff.

 

The problem with this list is that it’s a combination of environmental and economic goals.
So “green” is a bit deceiving

 

The only green that really counts:

• $2.50/100 mi - 2019 Tesla Model 3 Std Rng Plus
• $2.75/100 mi - 2017 BMW i3-REx
• Add ~15% free miles to both of the above
• $8.30/100 mi - 2017 BMW on REx (38.26 MPG) no free gas miles
  • Transportation cost for a cross country trip like the 830 mi delivery from Florida to Huntsville AL.

My out of pocket purchase costs:

• $23,700 :: $42,000 - $18,300 trade-in Prius Prime for New Tesla Model 3
• $15,000 :: purchase of used 2017 BMW i3-REx

EVs have been both cheaper to purchase and operate than our previous cars. This includes the new $27,000 Prius Prime bought without a trade-in.

As for battery production generating CO[2], the Tesla dry electrode coating eliminates the waste from evaporating the previous coating liquid before soaking in the electrolyte. See Tesla Battery Day. A new technique, it is what Tesla is going forward in the 4680 cells and substantially eliminates coating energy waste.

Bob Wilson

 

The thing is, electricity can and is being produced from renewables.
Fossils can’t

 

Aren't fossil fuels truly one of the oldest type of recyclable fuel?

Once we pass away won't we be eventually be turned into fuel just like old dinosaurs were?

Explainer: Where fossil fuels come from (snexplores.org)

 

Yes, that will happen quickly

and burning them is great for the environment too, win/win

 

And they are cheap in the USA, thanks to us taxpayers, that’s the ‘mericun way!

 

I do get what your point is and what you are saying don't get me wrong.
I believe that for the most point we are all well intentioned and doing our best to preserve the wonderful gift of the planet.

I worked in the Auto Industry for 30 years and was able to retire from it - I made my living by contributing to supplying cars.
Despite that I think no vehicle is green or provides a positive impact to the environment.
Automakers are doing wonders making Automobiles less impactful to our earth - but- they all use tremendous amounts of natural resources to be built and driven.
Saying one is better or on a higher moral ground than another is like a bunch of cast iron pots arguing which one is blacker - they all are black and all are pots!

 

History always repeats. This review isn't the 1st time junk science was pushed out ...

Previously - the hit piece was created to besmirch the Prius.

Hummer versus Prius: “Dust to Dust” Report Misleads the Media and Public with Bad Science - Pacific Institute

as stated above - just follow the money. There are still - tons of ignorant people quoting how horribly toxic the Prius is to this day - based on a laughably debunked article.

I just hope it's never shown that Toyota had anything to do with this latest 'study'.
.

 

Even on a fossil fuel heavy grid, an EV will likely emit less CO2 than a comparable ICE. Also easier to keep a power plant emission clean vs millions of moving cars.

They can. Porsche is doing it, and the company they worked with is working on opening a plant in Texas to make methanol and other e-fuels. It is just too expensive to run a straight ICE car as a daily driver. As for the OT, these fuels still produce the other harmful emissions when burned.

 

I believe this is the logical fallacy called "false equivalency".

Cyanide is bad for you, so is red meat.
Therefore red meat is just as bad for you as cyanide.

That doesn't make a lot of sense, does it.

I have no qualms with the Prime showing up at the top of their list.
I have spent quite some time reading through their methodology. I still can't tease out why they exclude Tesla nor how they weight different aspects of what goes into their scores.

 

Eventually people will realize the truth in John's statement above. When that happens, there will probably be an incentive program to encourage people to work locally. Working from home is almost as good as working locally... if you can.

Reducing pollutants per car is good. Reducing pollution per passenger mile is even better. To that end, I suspect that we will see a resurgence of the train and bus mass transit to get from one urban center to the next. Uber / Waymo / can complete the last mile.

As such, I figure that my 2024 Prius Prime will be likely to be my last car capable of cross country / inter city travel.

 

They didn't. The highest green score they received was a 57 for the Model Y long range.
GreenerCars Ratings – Greener Cars

I think they are putting too much importance on weight for these scores. Maybe they are even double counting the battery in the calculations.
IIRC, lack of transparency for the scoring was a complain the last time we discussed this.

 

How exactly is it luck that my roof has solar panels on it?
Does anyone think I rolled some dice and then they showed up?

I chose to install them in 2015 and they have easily paid for themselves by now.
It wasn't quite a financial cost, but now a savings.

Mike

 

PriusChat, a community rich with early adopters.

Bob Wilson

 

To all the master wordsmiths:


The third line definition = Something regarded as bringing about or portending good or bad things similar as 'blessed', 'successful', 'prosperous' .
Where I come from all of those things are good!

What would make someone jump to one of the more inappropriate meanings.
An interesting psychological study could take place here!

Try something different respect and expect the best of people it just may change your life

 

Thanks! … I think…
So the long range Model Y is ‘greener’ than the long range Model 3, which is slightly ‘greener’ than the standard range Model 3.

Meanwhile, the weight is greatest for the one they ranked ‘greenest’ and the efficiency lowest.

I don’t think I’m going to spend anymore time with this group.

 

That's a huge deal right there.

I notice it all the time... driving along a road and I can smell all the unburnt fuel coming out of some pickup that has had its catalytic converter removed and replaced with a plain pipe.

The rest of us are paying to keep our rigs running clean, how come that guy can't pull his own weight?

Fortunately there's much better monitoring and far heavier fines when the polluter is a powerplant.

 

well it cost more green to get the model Y. lol. Somehow this group never made much sense. Maybe before cars were actually being built but teslas have a fairly small footprint. I'm probably going to swap my 5 1/2 year old model 3 dual long range for the model Y, although I like it better than the y. They stopped upgrading my computer so have until end of march to trade and move over the self driving. Ys with the tax credit are much less expensive than the 3s.