Test Drove a Volt today

I'd suspect a high percentage of the components in the Volt are manufactured outside of the US.

 

Sales are how change occurs.

Prius is a great car because it fulfills the many criteria mainstream buyers place on it.

Volt is only good because it comes up short. Price is the most obvious problem.
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The battery cells are from Korea and the gas engine is from Australia.

Going from Prius to Volt is a downgrade. You get smaller car that emit more emission (on average so it depends on your electricity) and use more energy to operate.

If EPA were to give out Energy Star labels to plugins, Volt would not earn it. It has the highest electricity consumption rate out of all other plugins.

 

On page 22 of the April 2011 issue of Car and Driver (as part of the "Domestic Bliss" charts, doesn't seem to be online yet), the Chevy Volt is listed as having 40% 2011 US/Canada part content. I'd be curious what the sticker on the Volt says.

The two other vehicles built at the same plant (Hamtramck): Buick Lucerne and Cadillac DTS have 76% US/Canada part content.

 

have you even sat in one?

volt's interior is far nicer than the Prius. It's closer to the ct 200h than the prius, in terms of niceness.

The volt is not a downgrade.

 

Some just have tunnel vision.

The Prius is a great car. It has fuel economy, emissions, cargo space, and doesn't handle like a truck.

There are other criteria that people take into consideration when selecting a car. Some of which don't have a quantative measurement. Then there is the fact that not everyone puts the same emphasis on all those criteria.

The Volt may come up short some areas, and the Prius may not meet everyone's needs, but both are better than a Tahoe.

 

The volt has the best electricity consumption rate of all plug in hybrids on the market today, because its the only one.

Comparing to a pure EV isn't fair because of the extra weight of the ICE, when the PHV Prius is available you can take the crown til then its a one man show.

 

Pure EV also has the extra weight of the bigger battery pack. It is valid to compare one plugin car to another. Volt consumes more electricity than an electric car and more gas than a cordless hybrid.

Prius PHV should have the lowest electricity consumption out of any plugin and yet retain the 50 MPG in the hybrid mode. With the plugin battery pack between the driver and passenger seat, you won't have to give up one rear seat, cargo space or the spare tire.

 

The transmission's from Japan and the ICE is actually from Austria. Edmunds has a picture of the Monroney sticker at Chevrolet Volt Window Sticker Picture and reaffirms the 40% US/Canadian content.

 

I stand corrected. Ok, Austria. That's blurry but I can barely read it. We need a higher resolution pic.

 

Finally got a chance to test drive one at the opning of a new Cabela's near my house. Just a short loop, less than a mile. Nice smooth ride, peppy and quiet.

Dashboard not bad. The tire pressures screen with individual reading for each tire is nice. High beam stalk can be used to make an alert sound while the car is rolling at low speed, solves nicely the "bell the hybrid" non-issue.

Kinda cramped in the back, definitely not good enough for our family situation. Hatchback design with rear seats folding nearly flat is smart.

Overall, with my limited exposure, it appears to be a very nice ride.

 

BTW, the "Product Specialist" who was explaining the Volt to me kept insisting that it is NOT a hybrid, despite my telling him that technically it is. Am I wrong, or is he?

 

I test drove one at a GM event in Irvine, CA. They did keep insisting that it was not a hybrid. Electric motor drives the wheels and the gas engine recharges the batteries for the electric motor. That's what I got from it. It is an interesting concept. 375 miles range per tank. It is cramped in the back and the interior looks like a girls dorm room. Definately looks bigger from the outside.

 

It takes two power sources to make it a hybrid. Volt has both. 91% gas and 9% EV range.

 

I think the true hallmark of "hybrid" is blending the power trains, which the HSD does such a beautiful job of. The volt does very little of that most of the time.

I don't know what we want to call the difference, but we need to develop a good way to explain the different operating principles between the Volt and the PHV prius. The PHV is always hybrid and will use the best power source under the load conditions, with more electrical assist while the charge lasts and more mechanical assist thereafter. The Volt tries to ignore the ICE until it can't anymore, then tries to get it to act as a generator primarily and only blend the powertrains when absolutely necessary.

They represent two very different philosophies that may appeal to different buyers with different goals, but its hard enough trying to get John Q Public to understand what a hybrid is in the first place, let alone cutting edge developments in new related tech.

 

MT's final blog entry on the Volt makes similar conclusions.

 

Do you have any engineering or even anecdotal data on that? I don't think the powerflow screen tells you which operating mode the transmission is in, does it?

The volt is definitely a hybrid, and can operate in the same ICE only, MG2 only, ICE charging MG1 to power MG2, and ICE and MG2 combined (using MG1 to reduce MG2 speed) modes as the Prius, and Prius PHV. The only difference is that it offers one additional mode, MG2 and MG1 combined (using MG1 to reduce MG2 speed) with the ICE decoupled. in Prius, the ICE has to start spinning with no fuel in it above 46mph (and 62mph for the PHV).

Lets put it this way. When in CS mode, can the car go up a decent hill at 60mph without using the ICE for torque assist? no, it can't, because MG1 is not available to reduce the speed on MG2 to where it would have sufficient torque. so it will go into parallel hybrid mode, where ICE is providing torque, MG2 speed is reduced and MG1 is being used to provide power to a lower speed high torque MG2. PHV does the same thing, high torque situations demand the ICE to assist. Another, can the Volt go 100mph in CS mode without the ICE adding torque? no, same problem, MG2 is going too fast, and at 100mph it has little torque and is quite inefficient, so MG1 is needed to reduce it's speed. we again go into parallel mode. This is the same as PHV, who needs to bring the ICE on to reduce MG1 speed above 62mph.

They are definitely both hybrids, and operate in an extremely similar manner. the key difference is the control strategy for the different operating modes. Prius can switch almost instantly, as only a change in control signal to the motor controllers is needed. if you ever watch the powerflow screen you'll see it switches modes -all- the time. It also uses predictive software to guess what your power demand will be in the near future and gets ready for it. in Volt, there is a physical mechanical change required (3 clutches) which takes both time and energy. The result is that one vehicle can operate on petrol at 50mpg, and the other at 37mpg. What very interesting is that anecdotal evidence on the PHV prototype suggests even better fuel economy is possible with the larger lithium battery and refined control software.


The terms "Hybrid" "Plug-In Hybrid" and "EV" are all we need, there is not yet such a thing as an "EREV", and i'm not sure there will be.

 

No. You only know engine on/off, battery supplying/regenerating. I consider myself pretty sensitive to these things and I can't tell what mode the transmission is in.

It's an EV that's a hybrid when in CS mode. People sure get worked up on semantics.

That's pretty significant to dismiss as the "only difference", even if I agreed it was true, wouldn't you say? It's the whole point of the Volt, whether you approve of the choice or not.

No, but it can go 100mph w/o the ICE at all, which is kind of cool.

You say "quite" inefficient. I'm curious if you can characterize that with numbers. Pam Fletcher, one of the chief engineers on the Volt, said that the load share of the two electric motors adds "a couple miles EV range" IIRC. So, it's obviously worth it to clutch in the 2nd motor when you're scratching for every mile but not doing it doesn't cut the range in half either.

I'm not sure why you think the Volt doesn't do all those thing in addition to having the 3 clutches. GM calls it "load sharing" and they were running prototype drivetrains in 2007.

Yes, and one can operate purely EV for those who are inclined to desire such a vehicle and one can't. Gas operation is supposed to be the exceptional condition with a Volt and yet every single discussion on this board fixates on that mode. I suspect the primary actor here is actually weight - what kind of mileage does a Prius get if you load 700lbs into it?

I haven't been following it but I'll assume you mean it gets better fuel economy after the battery is depleted. I'm very curious how the EPA is going to test the PHV Prius.

*shrug* Talk to the GM marketing team. I've seen dumber things.

 

I agree it is hybrid, and can operate in all the modes you described, the main difference is one of control software and the choices the car is making. You are right that in CS mode on a good incline at 60 mph the ICE will mechanically help drive the wheels, but only in CS mode where the PHV prius will always be getting motive power from the ICE above 62 mph w/o the hill.

Lets look at the same problem a different way:
5 miles down the road from the dealership the interstate goes on a good hilly incline for about 2 miles. If you pull onto the interstate in the PHV prius and traffic is flowing above 62 mph the ICE will come on and start providing mechanical assist, the hill is kind of a non-event.

Same dealership sends you out for a test drive in the volt (fully charged), you are running along at interstate speeds without the ICE, hit the hill and still no ICE although the electrical range available may be decreasing faster than actual miles traveled as the system recomputes consumption.

Same dealership sends you out in the Volt, but its been test driven all day and the charge is depleted. The ICE is running as soon as you start moving, but it is not providing any mechanical assist to the wheels. You pull onto the interstate and accelerate to highway speeds for the 5 miles, the ICE is still running as a generator, if you don't accelerate too hard and stay below 70 that will be true until you reach the hill when the increased load is sure to require mechanical assist direct from the ICE to the wheels.

They are both plug-in hybrids, they both try to get some all electric driving, but with very different philosophies. We almost need a sliding scale to demonstrate if the vehicle is closer to a "conventional" hybrid or closer to an EV. The far right would have all the regular hybrids, PHV prius would be a little more to the left but still closer to the hybrid end of the scale and the Volt would be closer to the middle of the scale and the leaf and other pure EVS would be the far left.

 

I do love how you make false associations. It's quite endearing.

At 1600 miles, my lifetime utilization is 71% EV, 29% gas (long trip the first week for the heck of it), but my average week is 90-95% EV. Might be 100% this week.