Tesla stock

I see your point, but investing in TSLA is not the same as gambling in the traditional sense because of what TSLA represents to both EVangelists and dot.gov.
Despite the fact that their cars do not represent the epitome of reliability and affordability....HUMANS seem to value them highly.

It's "too big to fail" now, if only because of "science and data." (politics)

Dot or Feather?

Economics.
You're trying to study (or predict) how humans react to or with 'value.'
The way I see it is you basically have four options:
1. Banks
Hope that despite the fact that the governments of the world are about to spend more money than has ever been created in human history.....inflation will not erode the value of your savings.

2. Play in the street.
Pay an investor to see around the corners - or just buy into an index fund and hope that the thundering herd isn't pointed at a cliff.

3. Munies
....because cities are even BETTER at money management than the feds.

OTOH....maybe you're right.
Buying TSLA is a gamble, but playing at the craps table and then walking out of the casino being JUST broke might not be the most idiotic plan.....

 

And when enough lawyers loose money on a pick - they know how to get their money back come hell or high water. QuantumScape qs

john321 bottom of pg 52
Tesla stock | Page 52 | PriusChat

 

the system is rigged. best you can do is pick your level of risk and hope for some kind of long term returns

 

bisco, you are better than this. You know that stocks are from real companies (mostly) producing real value (mostly). Trading is gambling. Investing in something is not gambling. I'm confident you know that but were just playing up the craziness this thread has become.

 

For all those that still think Tesla is a car company.

Tesla (TSLA) Is Plugging a Secret Mega-Battery Into the Texas Grid - Bloomberg

 

On the same note, without naming particular suppliers:

SciAm: Utilities Are Installing Big Batteries at a Record Pace

"The energy storage industry is shattering records for battery deployments, underscoring its growing role in decarbonizing the economy.

In the last three months of 2020, nearly 2.2 gigawatt-hours (GWh) of energy storage systems were put into operation, according to the energy data firm Wood Mackenzie. That’s an increase of 182% from the previous record-setting quarter.

The blockbuster fourth quarter capped a year that saw a total of 3.5 GWh installed—more than the 3.1 GWh that went into operation in the previous six years combined. That torrid growth has industry boosters and researchers feeling very bullish about the prospects for energy storage. ..."

 

Not actually seeing the big picture clearly, if at all. I've read about car batteries being recycled into bulk storage units like mentioned in the link posted above. Last line/Bottom line of the article says .. “That’s reaching somewhere about 2 terawatt-hours of the battery capacities,” he added. “It’s gigantic.” ...
That is Huge/Giga ntic.. It would be even bigger if recycled car batteries would fit into the mix.
I suspect that most of the installations being discussed are fresh new installs. Who in their right mind (to coin an old phrase) is actually going to put a storage unit online made from recycled car batteries with all the possible issues a recycled car battery might exhibit in a year or two or ten... When a new installation could possibly last as long as 20 years trouble free. It gets more complex as the systems and calls for warranty replacement grow and not many (normal) people are interested or aware.

 

There is very little difficulty in using car batteries.
Batteries are no longer usable in automotive uses when they reach 70% capacity. Grid support are useful much further with lower capacity.
It isn’t like an ICE engine with wear and tear until it breaks.
With batteries you have a gradual decline in capacity over time.

 

Must have missed my idea above, if I understand the reply correctly. It's not that car batteries can't be reused in new storage installation, my idea is how many of them are new and how many of them are recycled in new gigawatt installs. Apologies, it that was not evident

 

The phone system uses lead acid batteries (48v) to keep their equipment running when the electricity goes out. Their batteries last over 20 years when well maintained.

JeffD

 

These are new simply because there isn't a supply of used batteries from cars to meet the demand for grid scale projects. Most batteries put into cars since 2010 are still in the cars.

Smaller scale is happening. Toyota used old NiMH packs at some dealers in Japan for peak shaving. Last week I had an article in my feed about a company using used auto batteries for back up and emergency power. Didn't read it, so don't have the details.

In time, the large projects will use the old packs simply to reduce costs. Just need a large enough vehicle fleet to support them.

 

There is a company specializing in building residential storage devices from used (as in salvaged) automotive battery packs. The result is something similar to a Powerwall. The hitch is that they are getting batteries cheap and refurbishing them but as more companies copy their idea the price of used batteries are going up.

Yes, the phone company has traditionally used HUGE banks of wet cell batteries to provide energy to run the entire phone network if necessary. Yes, they lasted 20 years or more. But they were constantly monitored, constantly on a float charge and frequently undergoing preventive maintenance.

How much power was in the batteries? A worker in a small town near us dropped his large wrench onto the copper power buss bar. The wrench vaporized and melted a huge gouge out of the copper bar. It did not blow a fuse.

The ones that are being added in Australia and other places are primarily to buffer the sporadic production of windmill and solar farms. Not a lot of run time but a lot of peak power.

Next question (On Topic): Do real world events impact TSLA stock prices? Yesterday it was disclosed that Tesla told the California DMV via email that the FSD will not be advancing beyond level 2. In other words, the Full Self Driving was not expected to ever be capable of driving the car by itself. Stock is up 19% today. Huh????

See story here: Tesla Admits Current ‘Full Self-Driving Beta’ Will Always Be a Level 2 System: Emails

Dan

 

I read that this beta would never be advanced beyond Level 2 but that is not to say that a future Beta might be submitted for approval with additional capabilities beyond Level 2. Legal reassurance that Elon won't try to sneak some 3 and 4 and 5 capabilities in using this approval. Nothing more than lawyer speak for give us approval and we'll come back to you for the next round..

 

That's a bit of editorializing, saying "not expected to ever be capable ....."
considering the authors wording here:

sounds like the articles' author just hedged his bets. But of course, no one would likely read his articles, if there wasn't some good - juicy drama attached.

.

 

Not a lot of noise from the naysayers today...

 

You would think they learn from their mistakes, but alas, some people never learn. I for one, used the dip to buy some more shares. I am looking for at least 5-7 year horizon on this thing. Dips for no reason whatsoever are definitely buying opps.

 

It isn't necessary the same people repeatedly making these mistakes. Some drop out of the game when they get smart, others not until they go broke, but more usually come along to replace them.

And there is still a very respectable chance that one of these times, those playing that game at just the right time will get fabulously rich. Never mind the long string of broken financial carcasses before them.

 

And then the highly touted casting machine goes and has a big fire. In any other same sized company, that would be a yawn. But to Tesla where casting is said to be key to wringing costs out of the chassis, what effect will it have?

 

probably none. you're trying to make it sound like two guys building cars in their spare time