Featured Tesla is Going Out of Business, says former GM Vice Chairman.

I think it's an interesting statement coming from a company that needed the gov. to stay afloat.

 

I was referring to the original links being anti-Tesla sources. Not PriusChat. There are a number of valued, happy Tesla-owning Prius users here.

 

Bob Lutz is not a 'company'.

And the company he used to work for, is out of business and no longer able to make any statements. Legally and financially, it did not stay afloat. A new entity was created to replace it, re-using the old name.

 

Tesla was able to issue bonds at a very low interest rate, implying a low risk of default. Yes anything approaching 1% risk of default is a junk rating. IMHO as a stock holder when the bonds were issued so cheaply, it was good for stock holders, those that bought the bonds initially overpaid.

Walmart is buying 15 trucks initially 5 for the US 10 for canadian operations. Loblaws - a canadian grocery chain - is buying 15 trucks. That is 40 so far that have been announced. The tesla's design is more aerodynamic and also prevents jackknifing. How many accidents are avoided with the autopilot and anti-jacknifing software is yet to be determined. Walmart anounced its interest to help its own stock, not teslas. If walmart can lower tco on its trucking and accidents its a way to compete.

Well no Lutz isn't saying anything new or even anything true. He said toyota was losing money on the prius. He said gm should kill the ev-1. He told us that the changes he was making at gm would make it profitable (they made it bankrupt). He told us that via motors was going to make a fortune making phevs out of gm pickup trucks and vans. The guy is wrong a lot.

GM, Ford, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, VW, etc give us more dog and pony shows that tesla ever will. They have a lot more money to waste. Hell Toyota is still pimping its fuel cell technology. It is definitely true that tesla will end up going to the equity or bond markets next year. At a valuation as high as it is, there probably will be low dilution. The truck unveil was actually delayed because of model 3 production problems. If they didn't show it, people would be screaming that they can't even build a prototype, now they are screaming that its a distraction. There are a lot of tesla haters out there, especially in the auto industry and people that have lost a great deal of money shorting the stock. Lutz probably is in both categories.

Excellent, much better than the established car industry. But it has to be as it is very hard to actually start a car company. That is one reason the stock is up to almost 10 times what I paid for it in 2012. The model S was better than expected as is the model 3. The model S has greatly improved during the years, while most most car companies only do minor changes. The semi has more range than expected. The roadster more range and better acceleration. On average tesla is about 1 year late in actually delivering volume to customers. That was the expectation at the begining of 2017 on the model 3, but then people got excited, bid up the stock, and its fallen back to earth. Its still way up from january, because the model 3 is better than expected and looks to be delivered with less of a delay than the X, but no one really knows if 20,000/month will happen in march, or if it will be later than that.

 

Worked for a Toyota / GM dealership when this went down. GM reps begged us to keep ordering vehicles and the use of the word "begging" is not a stretch. I would consistently be pestered to order more than needed. (Need 2 order 4 etc.) Was once even told they had to keep the factories going because they had to pay those who made the cars regardless if they worked or not.

There were bankruptcy rumors - for sure. The die-hard GM guys always denied it. Then when it happened you'd have thought a loved one had passed away. The despair was palatable. Then "We the people" get tasked with bailing them out... I still think GM owes each citizen of this country a free car for the billions we lost on their sale of stock we got stuck with.

As for my thoughts on Tesla - I'm still in the "wait & see" crowd. Wish them the best, but iono... Something in my gutt just says they aren't going to make it. Hope I'm wrong though.

 

A Toyota/GM dealership? That must have made for strange bedfellows!

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

I wouldn't want Tesla to go out of business. I like Elon Musk. He is the type of guy who will rock the boat because everyone was still sleeping. Not seeing where the boat was going. He's a risk taker but I believe learns very fast and that is lethal where everyone is sleeping or just waking up. Because by the time the big boys catch on, he is firmly embedded and capable to change his systems as needed because he had to learn to change quickly. I believe he is not greedy but stingy. He values robots and AI over human labor, which could explain the mass firing. But in the back of his mind, he fears AI will destroy mankind. He in a way is fueling his fear by putting robots and AI over human in the production of his cars. He is very visionary and who wouldn't want to see a man or woman on Mars in our lifetime?

The reason I would not buy a Model 3 because both Toyota and GM is right. The foundation of an electric car is only as strong as it's battery. Today's lithium batteries have not change much other than increased capacity. Safety is still an issue as Samsung had to find out. All lithiums in today's chemistry degrades rapidly by the 8th year. So Toyota is right to say that a change is needed to make them safer and last longer while charging faster. The first Model S came out in 2012 so that is 5 years of life on their lithium batteries. By now it should already be degrading fast. But knowing Elon that is not an issue, when new battery technology comes out, he will simply buy out the license from who ever can provide them and then put them in his cars. But no such battery exists yet probably for another 4-5 years. In the mean time all Tesla model owners will have to pay what ever the price to change their batteries.

That's why Toyota does not want Tesla to be a role model, because of this battery crisis coming.

 

it's a symbiotic relationship, as needed.

 

is this a serious post, or are you pulling our leg?

 

Parasitic, maybe?

 

Well, what did you find controversial? 8-yr Li batt life?

 

oh, where do i begin?

to be concise, paraphrasing: 'toyota and gm is right, todays lithium batteries are not safe, as samsung found out'.

2) yes, i have never heard about 8th year degradation before. looks like i only have another 2 1/2 years. so, tesla owners will all be buying new batteries after year 8?

3) battery crisis coming?and i've been wasting my time worrying about north korea.

 

Yes that would need a lot of explaining. Hard to believe Gen4 were designed for just 8 year yr batt life, but I was thinking we do have that one Prime report of a batt issue after 200k+ miles

 

do miles and years have the same effect on lithium batteries?

 

been woirking at Disney for over 3 decades & we have 10's of thousands of employees, like tesla .... like gm .... like Ford etc. Firing a few hundred per year is peanuts in big companies - a mear fraction of 1%. You don't wonder why other big companies letting go of their dead wood doesn't make the news? Maybe you should.

Maybe we should get rid of all the mega parking lot vacuum vehicles & go back to push rooms. Think of all the people you would have to hire. Maybe Ford, GM, et al should do away with their robotics too. iow, the above makes no sense.

safer? You mean like 20 gallons of gasoline instantly exploding? burning people to death - & severely injuring others? Dozens of times or more every single year? That kind of safer? There are hundreds of thousands of Tesla's worldwide, the nice thing about a battery fire compared to exploding gas, everyone can, & HAS gotten out alive - despite the billions of Miles racked up in electric cars. Gas-burning owners should be so fortunate to have such a statistic.

... WOW! sure looks like someone here is definitely NOTan electrochemical engineer. Maybe go look at the chart posted on another thread here on PC that shows even with well over 150K miles on many of the Model S's - capacity loss is on average running about 5%. So if you were getting 280 miles per charge, that pencils out to still getting 266 miles range even after driving over 150k miles. Not that 99% of people drive that much one way most times in a weak anyway.
might wana check out the facts next time before telling folks how it is.


None of that nonsense really matters, but pretty fantastic that some folks actually think it. Kind of reminds me of the Sudbury mines and how Prius nickel batteries were destroying the world. Oh brother.
Almost hate to segue back to the OP (TESLA going under) but here goes. When GM went under (bankruptcy) it was one of the largest companies in the world. So what. Big deal. They're still here. Life Goes On. They did horrible things and lo and behold they're still here. maybe even for the better. Hard times don't mean a company that's putting out a decent product simply disappears.
So try & connect the DOTS.
.

 

hill, why let facts get in the way of a good story?

 

Walt Disney told the good story. And it starts at the 36 second mark.

The Story Goes - Just because everybody else believes it doesn't mean you should be like the lemming - jumping off the cliff, because everyone around you does. It's not really a good story
.